The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast #342 – Jordan Peterson & Sara Stockton
Topics Discussed: Sara’s background, Transgender teams , Two factors in gender-dysphoria, Body integrity disorder, Simplistic assumptions, Ken Zucker, clear outcomes, First assessments, future expectations, multi-dimensional analysis, Three sessions are all it takes, Chloe Cole: fantasy and lies, Four steps, no treatment, Meeting her first De-Transitioner, Tehran, bizarre ethics, A shallow surgical fix, Trans-Age, deadnaming, Why Sara speaks out, Disorienting our children, Misgendering considered bullying?, Standards of care, five senses, Subjective identity by the day, When your child dresses up to play, “Valid long-term studies”, Hysteria and cultural redefinition, Psychogenic epidemics, Counterclaims on variability, Intense body modification, Munchausen by proxy, Oedipal narcissism, Desantis, Disney, the “LGBT agenda”, A mostly white problem, Radical freedom of choice, Furries and human sacrifice, Words of caution to therapists.
Sara Stockton is a licensed marriage and family therapist, lecturer, researcher, presenter, and clinical supervisor of a psychotherapy group practice in Central New York. In 2012, she co-authored and published one of the first mental health assessments utilized to assess youth's readiness to begin medical treatment for gender transition. She spent the first part of her career as a clinician treating and advocating on behalf of youth and families surrounding issues with gender. Treating well over one hundred families, she also wrote many of the first letters that were used to approve gender transition surgeries on minors. However, due to many concerns with the treatment outcomes and how this ideology was being presented to children, she shifted her focus away from working primarily with this population.
Books Mentioned in this Podcast with Jordan Peterson & Sara Stockton:
Regrets of a Former Trans Care Specialist: A Discussion with Sara Stockton on The Jordan Peterson Podcast #342
In episode 342 of The Jordan Peterson Podcast, renowned psychologist and cultural critic Dr. Jordan Peterson interviews Sara Stockton, a former trans care specialist who shares her experiences and regrets in the field. This 1000-word summary delves into the key topics discussed in the podcast, including the factors contributing to gender dysphoria, body integrity disorder, and the ethical considerations surrounding trans care.
Unpacking Gender Dysphoria: Sara Stockton's Insights and Comparisons with Body Integrity Disorder
Sara Stockton begins by discussing her background as a trans care specialist and her work with transgender teams. She identifies two major factors in gender dysphoria: biological predispositions and environmental influences. Stockton explains that there is a lack of teaching and understanding around these issues, leading to simplistic assumptions about the nature of gender dysphoria and the best ways to address it.
One example Stockton provides is the comparison between gender dysphoria and body integrity disorder. In both cases, individuals experience a disconnect between their perceived identity and their physical form. Despite this, the approach to treatment for each condition is vastly different, with body integrity disorder being treated as a mental health issue while gender dysphoria often leads to surgical intervention.
The Controversy Surrounding Ken Zucker's Research and the Challenges of Trans Care Assessments
Stockton also addresses the work of Ken Zucker, a Canadian psychologist whose research on clear outcomes in trans care has been controversial. She shares her concerns about the lack of thorough assessments and future expectations for patients seeking gender-affirming treatments. According to Stockton, many treatment facilities operate like “snake pits,” failing to conduct multi-dimensional analyses of patients’ needs and motivations. In some cases, as few as three sessions are all it takes for a patient to receive a diagnosis and begin transitioning.
The podcast highlights the story of Chloe Cole, a case study illustrating the potential dangers of basing treatment on fantasies and lies. Stockton shares her frustration with the four-step process that many facilities follow, which often excludes any form of psychological treatment or intervention.
The Impact of De-Transitioners, Ethical Concerns, and the Need for Improved Standards of Care
Stockton’s perspective began to shift after meeting her first de-transitioner, leading her to question the ethics of the industry. She discusses her experience in Tehran, where she encountered a shallow surgical fix for patients seeking gender reassignment surgery. Stockton raises concerns about the increasing normalization of trans-age identities and deadnaming, which she believes are disorienting our children and exacerbating existing mental health issues.
As a former insider, Stockton speaks out against what she perceives as a growing trend of misgendering being considered bullying. She emphasizes the need for higher standards of care and a more thorough understanding of the factors contributing to gender dysphoria, including the importance of the five senses in shaping one’s subjective identity.
Attracting the Wrong Motivations, Radical Freedom of Choice, and Advocating for Change in the Trans Care Industry
The conversation then turns to the types of people attracted to the industry, with Stockton suggesting that some may be motivated by Munchausen by proxy or Oedipal narcissism. They discuss the recent controversy surrounding Desantis, Disney, and the so-called “LGBT agenda,” as well as the predominantly white demographic affected by these issues.
Stockton and Peterson explore the idea of radical freedom of choice, touching on the phenomenon of furries and human sacrifice as examples of the extremes this concept can take. They emphasize the need for caution and responsibility on the part of therapists working with patients seeking gender-affirming care.
In conclusion, Stockton and Peterson urge listeners to stand up against the shortcomings of the trans care industry and advocate for better, more comprehensive treatment options for those experiencing gender dysphoria. This podcast sheds light on the complexities and ethical concerns surrounding the field, offering valuable insights from a former trans care specialist with firsthand experience.