jre 1521

Josh Dubin & Jason Flom

Josh Dubin and Jason Flom are influential figures in the realm of criminal justice reform, known for their dedicated advocacy and impactful initiatives. Josh Dubin, a prominent criminal justice reform advocate and attorney, is recognized for his expertise in wrongful conviction cases and his unwavering commitment to justice. With a deep understanding of the intricacies of the legal system, Dubin tirelessly works to overturn wrongful convictions and bring attention to systemic issues within the justice system. Jason Flom, a legendary music executive, is not only known for his role in launching iconic careers in the music industry but also for his passionate activism in criminal justice. As the founding board member of the Innocence Project, Flom leverages his influence and resources to fight against wrongful convictions, advocating for policy reforms and raising awareness about the flaws in the legal system. Together, Dubin and Flom represent a powerful force for change, dedicating their lives to ensuring justice for the wrongfully convicted and transforming the criminal justice landscape.

JRE 1521 with Josh Dubin & Jason Flom: The Heart-Wrenching Battle Against Wrongful Convictions

Josh Dubin and Jason Flom, both deeply involved with the Innocence Project, share their experiences and the emotional toll that comes from working on wrongful conviction cases. The podcast opens with a candid reflection from Joe Rogan, who admits to being emotionally affected by the stories of injustice and the fight against a flawed system. Both Dubin and Flom dive deep into the psychological, legal, and societal aspects of wrongful convictions, sharing stories that highlight the systemic issues leading to innocent people being imprisoned.

The Injustice System: A Closer Look

A significant part of the discussion revolves around how the justice system, driven by a win-at-all-costs mentality, often disregards the truth in favor of securing convictions. The guests share harrowing tales of individuals whose lives have been torn apart due to miscarriages of justice, shedding light on the severe consequences of a system that sometimes values wins over truth. They discuss the psychological tactics used in interrogations, the withholding of crucial evidence, and the refusal of certain parties to admit mistakes even when faced with overwhelming evidence.

Advocacy and Hope

Despite the grim realities presented, the conversation also focuses on the power of advocacy and the hope that drives individuals like Dubin and Flom to continue their work. They share success stories where their relentless pursuit of justice has led to the exoneration of wrongfully convicted individuals, providing a glimmer of hope in an otherwise bleak landscape. The discussion underscores the importance of public education, legal reform, and the need for a cultural shift in how the justice system operates.


The first third of this podcast serves as a potent reminder of the ongoing battle against wrongful convictions and the critical role of advocates in bringing about change. It exposes the systemic flaws that lead to innocent people being imprisoned while emphasizing the importance of hope, education, and relentless pursuit of justice. As listeners, we’re left with a deeper understanding of the importance of questioning authority, the need for comprehensive legal reform, and the power each individual holds in effecting change within the justice system.

The Ongoing Debate on Kamala Harris’s Record

The episode continues with a critical analysis of Kamala Harris’s record as a prosecutor, highlighting various instances where her actions have been questioned. The guests discuss a New York Times piece by Lara Bazelon, which details specific cases and points of contention regarding Harris’s decisions. This segment underscores the importance of holding political figures accountable for their actions in the justice system.

The Intricacies of the Legal Battle 

A poignant story shared in this segment is that of John Restivo, wrongfully convicted of a heinous crime. His story reveals the complexities and sometimes the absurdities of the legal battle for exoneration. Despite clear evidence of his innocence, the legal system’s reluctance to admit mistakes led to an extended fight for justice, reflecting systemic issues within the criminal justice framework.

Compensation for the Wrongfully Convicted

The conversation turns to the topic of compensation for those wrongfully convicted. While some states have compensation statutes, many have limitations or do not offer any compensation at all. The guests discuss the emotional and psychological toll on individuals who have been wrongfully incarcerated, highlighting the need for systemic reform and support.

The Role of ‘Junk Science’ in Convictions 

The episode delves into the problematic reliance on ‘junk science’ in the criminal justice system. From bite mark evidence to blood spatter analysis, the guests outline how unscientific methods have led to wrongful convictions. They emphasize the need for public education and awareness to prevent such miscarriages of justice.

The Impact of Mass Incarceration and the Culture of Conviction 

As the conversation progresses, the guests discuss the broader implications of wrongful convictions, including the impact of mass incarceration and the culture of conviction over truth. They argue that systemic change is necessary to address the root causes of these issues and ensure justice for all.

The Human Cost of Wrongful Convictions 

In the final third of episode #1521 of The Joe Rogan Experience, the dialogue intensifies as Josh Dubin and Jason Flom continue to share deeply moving stories and insights into the criminal justice system. The guests discuss individual cases like John Restivo and Clemente Aguirre, emphasizing the emotional and psychological devastation experienced by those wrongfully convicted. The narrative highlights the urgent need for reform and the powerful human resilience in the face of injustice.

The Perils of ‘Junk Science’ and Ineffective Legal Systems

The conversation delves deeper into the dangers of relying on ‘junk science’ in convictions and the broader implications of a flawed legal system. Stories are shared about individuals who suffered due to unscientific methods and systemic reluctance to admit mistakes. This segment sheds light on the urgent need for public education and reforms to ensure justice and prevent future miscarriages.

The Role of Society and Individuals in Enacting Change

As the episode progresses, the focus shifts to the role of society and individuals in combating wrongful convictions and pushing for reform. The guests discuss the importance of public awareness, education, and involvement in the justice system. They encourage listeners to take action, whether through writing letters, voting for just leaders, or supporting organizations fighting for change.


The final segment of The Joe Rogan Experience #1521 offers a powerful and thought-provoking exploration of the criminal justice system, the human stories within it, and the potential pathways to reform. The conversation is a call to action, urging listeners to engage with and challenge the system to create a more just and humane society. As we reflect on the stories and insights shared, it becomes clear that the fight for justice is ongoing and requires the collective effort of all.