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Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care on The Ezra Klein Show.

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Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care mentions The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Lisa DeMora, Living Resistance by Caitlin Curtis, The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin, and Caitlin Collins with timestamps, quotes, and episode context.

3 books from this episode

The reason that I mention it is because it's a great book for anybody who's parenting teen kids or even little kids.

Living Resistance
Caitlin Curtis

'Living Resistance is, it's just, it's beautiful.'

The Fifth Season
N.K. Jemisin

I learned so much about oppression, colonialism, capitalism, through her world building.

Episode summary
Love it or hate it, self-care has transformed from a radical feminist concept into a multibillion-dollar industry. But the wellness boom doesn’t seem to be making a dent in Americans’ stress levels. In 2021, 34 percent of women reported feeling burned out at work, along with 26 percent of men. Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a psychiatrist, has observed how wellness culture fails her patients, who she says are often burned out because of systemic failures, from the stresses that come with financial precariousness to the lack of paid family leave. In her book “Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included),” she encourages people to look beyond superficial fixes — the latest juice cleanses, yoga workshops, luxury bamboo sheets — to feel better. Instead, she argues that real self-care requires embracing internal work, which she outlines as four practices: setting boundaries, practicing self-compassion, aligning your values and exercising power. Lakshmin argues that when you practice real self-care, you not only take care of yourself, but you can also plant the seeds for change in your community. In this conversation, the guest host, Tressie McMillan Cottom, and Lakshmin discuss how the pandemic opened up a larger conversation about parental burnout; how countries with more robust social safety nets frame care as a right, not a benefit; why it’s fair to understand burnout as a type of societal “betrayal”; how to practice boundary-setting and why it can feel uncomfortable to do so; the convenient allure of “faux self-care”; and more. This episode was hosted by Tressie McMillan Cottom, a columnist for Times Opinion, a professor at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and the author of “Thick: And Other Essays.” Cottom also writes a newsletter for Times Opinion that offers a sociologist’s perspective on culture, politics and the economics of our everyday lives. Mentioned: More information about Ezra’s Jefferson Memorial Lecture “We Don’t Need Self-Care; We Need Boundaries” by Pooja Lakshmin “How Society Has Turned Its Back on Mothers” by Pooja Lakshmin “Our Obsession With Wellness Is Hurting Teens — and Adults” by The Ezra Klein Show with Lisa Damour “A Legendary World Builder on Multiverses, Revolution and the ‘Souls’ of Cities” by The Ezra Klein Show with N.K. Jemisin Book Recommendations: Living Resistance by Kaitlin B. Curtice The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Lisa Damour The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. The senior engineer is Jeff Geld. The senior editor is Annie-Rose Strasser. The show’s production team includes Emefa Agawu and Rollin Hu. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
Mention timeline

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The Emotional Lives of Teenagers
Lisa DeMora

The host mentions 'The Emotional Lives of Teenagers' as a valuable resource for parents navigating the complexities o…

Card
Living Resistance
Caitlin Curtis

The host mentions 'Living Resistance' as a beautiful book that connects readers to themselves. It explores four realm…

Card
The Fifth Season
N.K. Jemisin

The host mentions 'The Fifth Season' by N.K. Jemisin to highlight how the book explores themes of oppression and trau…

Card
Caitlin Collins

The host mentions Caitlin Collins to highlight her research on gender equity in parental leave policies and how it af…

Card
bell hooks

The host mentions bell hooks to emphasize the importance of self-care as a principle that influences life decisions,…

Card
Audre Lorde

The host references Audre Lorde to emphasize the importance of self-care as a principle rather than a task, particula…

Card
Real Self-Care
Pooja Lakshmin

The host mentions 'Real Self-Care' by Pooja Lakshmin to highlight the shortcomings of the mainstream self-care moveme…

Card
Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy
Tressie McMillan Cottom

Tressie McMillan Cottom is mentioned as the author of 'Lower Ed' to highlight her expertise on the subject of for-pro…

Card
Book mentions9
Media mentions1
Quick answers

Quick FAQ

Answers to common summary, books, and takeaway questions for this episode.

What is Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care about?

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care on The Ezra Klein Show.

What are the main takeaways from Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care?

These are the strongest takeaways surfaced by the transcript, summary copy, and linked mentions for Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care.

  • The conversation centers on self-care and decision making.
  • A second recurring theme is book recommendations.
  • Referenced books include The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Lisa DeMora and Living Resistance by Caitlin Curtis.
  • The strongest audience signal points to Parents of teenagers and young children and Readers seeking personal growth and connection.

Which books are mentioned in Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care?

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Lisa DeMora, Living Resistance by Caitlin Curtis, and The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.

Why are listeners searching for Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care?

Boundaries, Burnout and the 'Goopification' of Self-Care keeps attracting summary-style searches because this page combines episode context, transcript quotes, book references, and direct jump links back into the audio.

Topic and sentiment signals

Aggregated from transcript-derived mention metadata for better topical navigation and citation.

Mention sentiment
Deep Dive(3)Highly Recommended(3)Passing Reference(2)Critical Analysis(1)
Audience signals
Parents of teenagers and young childrenReaders seeking personal growth and connectionfans of sci-fi fantasy and those interested in themes of trauma and social issuesIndividuals interested in gender studies and social policy.Individuals interested in self-care, particularly those from marginalized backgrounds.Individuals seeking to understand self-care in the context of identity and societal pressures

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer quote context, and better timestamp support rise first.

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers cover
Best for Parents of teenagers and young childrenOften cited around parenting and mental health

This book is great for anyone parenting teens or little kids, focusing on supporting mental health and self-care for the next generation.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Parents of teenagers and young children
Key quote: The reason that I mention it is because it's a great book for anybody who's parenting teen kids or even little kids.
The host mentions 'The Emotional Lives of Teenagers' as a valuable resource for parents navigating the complexities of raising teenagers, especially in the context of mental health. The book is highlighted for its relevance to both parents of teens and younger children, emphasizing the importance of supporting the next generation's emotional well-being.
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Living Resistance cover
Living Resistance
Caitlin Curtis
Best for Readers seeking personal growth and connectionOften cited around book recommendations

Living Resistance is a beautiful book that you have by your bedside and read a chapter before bed, making you feel more connected to yourself.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Readers seeking personal growth and connection
Key quote: 'Living Resistance is, it's just, it's beautiful.'
The host mentions 'Living Resistance' as a beautiful book that connects readers to themselves. It explores four realms of existence, making it a meaningful read for personal reflection.
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The Fifth Season cover
The Fifth Season
N.K. Jemisin
Best for fans of sci-fi fantasy and those interested in themes of trauma and social issuesOften cited around importance of self-reflection

This sci-fi fantasy book teaches about oppression and trauma through brilliant world-building and character development.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: fans of sci-fi fantasy and those interested in themes of trauma and social issues
Key quote: I learned so much about oppression, colonialism, capitalism, through her world building.
The host mentions 'The Fifth Season' by N.K. Jemisin to highlight how the book explores themes of oppression and trauma through its characters. This connection is made to emphasize the importance of understanding these issues in the context of personal growth and self-care.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
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Caitlin Collins cover
Best for Individuals interested in gender studies and social policy.Often cited around gender equity in parental leave

Caitlin Collins has a book out where she interviews mothers in the United States, Italy, Sweden, discussing gender equity in parental leave policies.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals interested in gender studies and social policy.
Key quote: There is a researcher, Caitlin Collins, who writes about gender equity in parental leave policies.
The host mentions Caitlin Collins to highlight her research on gender equity in parental leave policies and how it affects mothers' experiences in different countries. This discussion ties into the broader theme of self-care and the societal expectations placed on women, particularly in the context of caregiving responsibilities.
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bell hooks cover
Best for Individuals interested in self-care, particularly those from marginalized backgrounds.Often cited around self-care and decision making

bell hooks is referenced as a significant thinker whose work contributes to the cultural understanding of self-care and values.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals interested in self-care, particularly those from marginalized backgrounds.
Key quote: And this, of course, builds on, you know, the work of Audre Lorde, bell hooks.
The host mentions bell hooks to emphasize the importance of self-care as a principle that influences life decisions, particularly for marginalized groups. This reference highlights the cultural contributions of Black queer thinkers in shaping the discourse around self-preservation and personal values.
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Audre Lorde cover
Best for Individuals seeking to understand self-care in the context of identity and societal pressuresOften cited around self-care and decision making

The work of Audre Lorde is mentioned as foundational in the discussion of self-care and societal values.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals seeking to understand self-care in the context of identity and societal pressures
Key quote: self-care, this version of self-care, can feel actually even, I almost want to use the word violent, because it's self-preservation, like Audre Lorde said.
The host references Audre Lorde to emphasize the importance of self-care as a principle rather than a task, particularly for marginalized groups. Lorde's work is highlighted as foundational in understanding the survival aspect of self-care in the context of societal pressures and personal identity.
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Real Self-Care cover
Real Self-Care
Pooja Lakshmin
Best for Individuals seeking a deeper understanding of self-care beyond consumerismOften cited around self-care culture critique

Pooja Lakshmin is a psychiatrist and the author of Real Self-Care. She argues that self-care isn't about lighting a candle or making more time for yoga.

View mention details
Sentiment: Critical Analysis
For: Individuals seeking a deeper understanding of self-care beyond consumerism
Key quote: Pooja Lakshmin is a psychiatrist and the author of Real Self-Care.
The host mentions 'Real Self-Care' by Pooja Lakshmin to highlight the shortcomings of the mainstream self-care movement, which often overlooks deeper structural issues. Lakshmin's perspective emphasizes that true self-care involves internal work and community engagement rather than superficial practices.
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Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy cover
Best for Listeners interested in education and capitalismOften cited around For-Profit Colleges

She is the author of Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy, and the National Book Award nominee, Thick.

View mention details
Sentiment: Passing Reference
For: Listeners interested in education and capitalism
Key quote: She is the author of Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy, and the National Book Award nominee, Thick.
Tressie McMillan Cottom is mentioned as the author of 'Lower Ed' to highlight her expertise on the subject of for-profit colleges. The host expresses admiration for her work and contributions to the discussion on education and capitalism.
Amazon search results · affiliate link
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Thick cover
Thick
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Best for Listeners interested in social commentary and cultural critique.Often cited around Tressie McMillan Cottom

She is the author of Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy, and the National Book Award nominee, Thick.

View mention details
Sentiment: Passing Reference
For: Listeners interested in social commentary and cultural critique.
Key quote: She is the author of Lower Ed, The Troubling Rise of For-Profit Colleges in the New Economy, and the National Book Award nominee, Thick.
The host mentions Tressie McMillan Cottom as a notable author and columnist, highlighting her previous appearances on the show. The reference to her book 'Thick' serves to establish her credibility and expertise in the discussion at hand.
Amazon search results · affiliate link
Find on Amazon
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The Emotional Lives of Teenagers
The Ezra Klein Show · 55:43
The reason that I mention it is because it's a great book for anybody who's parenting teen kids or even little kids.
Living Resistance
The Ezra Klein Show · 55:04
'Living Resistance is, it's just, it's beautiful.'
The Fifth Season
The Ezra Klein Show · 56:18
I learned so much about oppression, colonialism, capitalism, through her world building.
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Shop This Episode

Pick up the books after you hear them in context.

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers cover
Mentioned at 55:43
The Emotional Lives of Teenagers
Lisa DeMora

The host mentions 'The Emotional Lives of Teenagers' as a valuable resource for parents navigating the complexities of raising teenagers, especiall…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Living Resistance cover
Mentioned at 55:04
Living Resistance
Caitlin Curtis

The host mentions 'Living Resistance' as a beautiful book that connects readers to themselves. It explores four realms of existence, making it a me…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
The Fifth Season cover
Mentioned at 56:18
The Fifth Season
N.K. Jemisin

The host mentions 'The Fifth Season' by N.K. Jemisin to highlight how the book explores themes of oppression and trauma through its characters. Thi…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Movies & Documentaries Mentioned

Movie

Peaky Blinders The Immortal Man

Confidence: 100%

In Netflix's upcoming film, Peaky Blinders The Immortal Man, Tommy Shelby must face his own demons and choose whether to confront his legacy or burn it to the ground.