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This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain on The Ezra Klein Show.

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This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain mentions The Pain Management Workbook by Rachel Zofnes, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky, The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, and Books by a guy named by Dr. John Sarno with timestamps, quotes, and episode context.

3 books from this episode

I would recommend to anybody dealing with chronic pain.

It explains how emotional health is always implicated in physical health.

The Body Keeps the Score
Bessel van der Kolk

It's like the brain is connected to the body 100% of the time.

Episode summary
Physical pain is a universal human experience. And for many of us, it’s a constant one. Roughly 20 percent of American adults — some 50 million people — suffer from a form of chronic pain. For some, that means having terrible days from time to time. For others, it means a life of constant suffering. Either way, the depth and scale of pain in our society is a massive problem. But what if much of how we understand pain — and how to treat it — is wrong? Rachel Zoffness is a pain psychologist at the University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine and the author of “The Pain Management Workbook.” We tend to think of pain as a purely biomechanical phenomenon, a physical sensation rooted solely in the body. But her core argument is that pain is also produced by the mind and deeply influenced by social context. It’s a simple-sounding argument with vast implications not only for how we experience pain but also for how we treat it. She points to numerous underused tools — aside from pills and surgeries — that can help lessen our pain. We discuss how pain serves as “the body’s warning signal”; how our mood, stress levels and social environment can amplify or dial down our pain levels; what phantom limb syndrome says about how the brain “makes pain”; how our emotions and trauma influence our pain levels; the crucial difference between “hurt” and “harm”; why studies on back pain have yielded such bewildering results; how to figure out and improve your personal “pain recipe”; the roots of our chronic pain crisis; how our health care system could be better set up to treat chronic pain; why Zoffness says, “If the brain can change, pain can change”; and more. Mentioned: “Sham Surgery in Orthopedics” by Adriaan Louw, Ina Diener, César Fernández-de-las-Peñas and Emilio J. Puentedura Book Recommendations: Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers by Robert M. Sapolsky The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk Pain by Patrick Wall Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Roge Karma and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris and Kate Sinclair. Mixing by Sonia Herrero and Isaac Jones. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Carole Sabouraud and Kristina Samulewski.
Mention timeline

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The Pain Management Workbook
Rachel Zofnes

The host mentions 'The Pain Management Workbook' to highlight the complexities of chronic pain and its treatment. He…

Card
Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers
Robert Sapolsky

The host mentions 'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers' to emphasize the connection between emotional health and physical pai…

Card
The Body Keeps the Score
Bessel van der Kolk

The host mentions 'The Body Keeps the Score' to emphasize the connection between trauma and its physical manifestatio…

Card
Books by a guy named
Dr. John Sarno

The host discusses Dr. John Sarno's controversial views on the connection between emotions and physical pain, highlig…

Card
The Book of Pain

The host highlights the significance of understanding the difference between hurt and harm in the context of pain man…

Card
Pain: The Science of Suffering
Patrick Wall

The host briefly mentions Patrick Wall as a significant figure in the field of pain science. His contributions, parti…

Card
Book mentions6
Media mentions0
Quick answers

Quick FAQ

Answers to common summary, books, and takeaway questions for this episode.

What is This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain about?

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain on The Ezra Klein Show.

What are the main takeaways from This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain?

These are the strongest takeaways surfaced by the transcript, summary copy, and linked mentions for This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain.

  • The conversation centers on chronic pain treatment.
  • A second recurring theme is chronic pain understanding.
  • Referenced books include The Pain Management Workbook by Rachel Zofnes and Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky.
  • The strongest audience signal points to Individuals suffering from chronic pain and Individuals interested in holistic health approaches.

Which books are mentioned in This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain?

The Pain Management Workbook by Rachel Zofnes, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky, and The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.

Why are listeners searching for This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain?

This Book Changed My Relationship to Pain keeps attracting summary-style searches because this page combines episode context, transcript quotes, book references, and direct jump links back into the audio.

Topic and sentiment signals

Aggregated from transcript-derived mention metadata for better topical navigation and citation.

Mention sentiment
Critical Analysis(2)Highly Recommended(2)Deep Dive(1)Passing Reference(1)
Audience signals
Individuals suffering from chronic painIndividuals interested in holistic health approachesHealthcare providers and medical educatorsHealthcare providers and individuals experiencing chronic painPatients dealing with painIndividuals interested in pain management and medical professionals.

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer quote context, and better timestamp support rise first.

The Pain Management Workbook cover
Best for Individuals suffering from chronic painOften cited around chronic pain understanding

Rachel Zofnes, who is a pain psychologist at the University of California at San Francisco, is the author of the Pain Management Workbook, which I would recommend to anybody dealing with chronic pain.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Individuals suffering from chronic pain
Key quote: I would recommend to anybody dealing with chronic pain.
The host mentions 'The Pain Management Workbook' to highlight the complexities of chronic pain and its treatment. He finds the book revelatory in its exploration of how pain is influenced by both biological and social factors.
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Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers cover
Best for Individuals interested in holistic health approachesOften cited around emotional health and pain

It explains how emotional health is always implicated in physical health and pain.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Individuals interested in holistic health approaches
Key quote: It explains how emotional health is always implicated in physical health.
The host mentions 'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers' to emphasize the connection between emotional health and physical pain. This book illustrates that addressing emotional and mental health is crucial for effectively managing pain.
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The Body Keeps the Score cover
The Body Keeps the Score
Bessel van der Kolk
Best for Healthcare providers and medical educatorsOften cited around multidisciplinary approach to pain

It shows us unequivocally that trauma and emotions don't just live in the head; they also come out in the body.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Healthcare providers and medical educators
Key quote: It's like the brain is connected to the body 100% of the time.
The host mentions 'The Body Keeps the Score' to emphasize the connection between trauma and its physical manifestations in the body. They highlight how trauma affects not just the brain but also the body's physiology, which is crucial for understanding chronic pain.
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Books by a guy named cover
Books by a guy named
Dr. John Sarno
Best for Healthcare providers and individuals experiencing chronic painOften cited around chronic pain treatment

The speaker mentions that they read books by Dr. John Sarno after experiencing neck and back pain, which discuss the connection between repressed emotions and physical pain.

View mention details
Sentiment: Critical Analysis
For: Healthcare providers and individuals experiencing chronic pain
Key quote: What I really deeply appreciate is that Dr. Sarno was a well established, well known and well liked clinician who came out and said, emotions don't just live in your head.
The host discusses Dr. John Sarno's controversial views on the connection between emotions and physical pain, highlighting both the positive impact of his work and the limitations of his theories. They appreciate Sarno's contribution to bridging emotional and physical pain but critique his claim of originality in a well-researched area.
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The Book of Pain cover
Best for Patients dealing with painOften cited around distinction between hurt and harm

It's a critical distinction for patients to get better from pain. The book discusses the important distinction between hurt and harm.

View mention details
Sentiment: Critical Analysis
For: Patients dealing with pain
Key quote: The book discusses the important distinction between hurt and harm.
The host highlights the significance of understanding the difference between hurt and harm in the context of pain management. This book provides valuable insights that can aid patients in their recovery journey.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
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Pain: The Science of Suffering cover
Best for Individuals interested in pain management and medical professionals.Often cited around founders of pain science

He was one of the founders of pain science and the creator of the Gate Control Theory of pain.

View mention details
Sentiment: Passing Reference
For: Individuals interested in pain management and medical professionals.
Key quote: He was one of the founders of pain science and the creator of the Gate Control Theory of pain.
The host briefly mentions Patrick Wall as a significant figure in the field of pain science. His contributions, particularly the Gate Control Theory, are highlighted to provide context on the evolution of understanding pain.
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The Pain Management Workbook
The Ezra Klein Show · 2:34
I would recommend to anybody dealing with chronic pain.
Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers
The Ezra Klein Show · 1:05:26
It explains how emotional health is always implicated in physical health.
The Body Keeps the Score
The Ezra Klein Show · 1:05:46
It's like the brain is connected to the body 100% of the time.
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Shop This Episode

Pick up the books after you hear them in context.

The Pain Management Workbook cover
Mentioned at 2:34
The Pain Management Workbook
Rachel Zofnes

The host mentions 'The Pain Management Workbook' to highlight the complexities of chronic pain and its treatment. He finds the book revelatory in i…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers cover
Mentioned at 1:05:26
Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers
Robert Sapolsky

The host mentions 'Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers' to emphasize the connection between emotional health and physical pain. This book illustrates that…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
The Body Keeps the Score cover
Mentioned at 1:05:46
The Body Keeps the Score
Bessel van der Kolk

The host mentions 'The Body Keeps the Score' to emphasize the connection between trauma and its physical manifestations in the body. They highlight…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

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