Best Of: This Conversation With Richard Powers Is a Gift

Melanie Challenger

I think it's one of the better explorations and refutations of human exceptionalism that I've read.

John Reed and Thomas Love

it's a book by the economist John Reed and the conservation biologist Thomas Love.

Dr. Suzanne Simard

Simard has been instrumental in a revolution in our way of thinking about what's happening underground.

Episode summary

Today we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations from 2021 with the novelist Richard Powers. Enjoy! There are certain conversations I fear trying to fit into a description. There’s just more to them than I’m going to be able to convey. This is one of them. Richard Powers is the author of 13 novels, including the 2019 Pulitzer Prize-winning “The Overstory.” If you haven’t read it, you should. It’ll change you. It changed me. I haven’t walked through a forest the same way again. And I’m not alone in that. When I interviewed Barack Obama this year, he recommended “The Overstory,” saying, “It changed how I thought about the earth and our place in it.” Powers’s new book is “Bewilderment.” You could think of it as 'The Innerstory': It is about how and whether we see the world we inhabit. It’s about the nature and limits of our empathy. It’s about refusing to die before we’re dead and taking seriously the gifts and responsibilities of being alive. It is about how we change our minds and how we change our societies. It is about how we treat delusion as normal and clarity as lunacy. It is enchanting, and it is devastating. It is not just books through which Powers has been exploring these ideas. It is also through radical changes he’s made to how he lives his life. That’s where we start but far from where we end: This conversation touches on mortality, animism, politics, old-growth forests, extraterrestrial life, Buddhism and beyond. Mentioned: Finding the Mother Tree by Suzanne Simard Book recommendations: How to Be Animal by Melanie Challenger Rooted by Lyanda Lynn Haupt Ever Green by John W. Reid and Thomas E. Lovejoy You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

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Melanie Challenger

The host mentions 'How to be Animal' as a significant exploration of the relationship between humans and non-humans,…

John Reed and Thomas Love

The host mentions 'Evergreen' to highlight its critical examination of the remaining primary forests and their role i…

Dr. Suzanne Simard

The host mentions 'Finding the Mother Tree' to highlight Dr. Suzanne Simard's groundbreaking research on the undergro…

Overstory

The host mentions 'The Overstory' to highlight its profound impact on how individuals perceive nature and their relat…

Bewilderment

Richard Powers

The host discusses Richard Powers' new book, 'Bewilderment,' in the context of its thematic connection to his previou…

Rooted

Liander Lynn Haupt

The host mentions 'Rooted' to illustrate how technology, including religion and community structures, shapes human in…

Braiding Sweetgrass

Robin Wall Kimmerer

The host mentions 'Braiding Sweetgrass' to highlight its exploration of the relationship between humans and the more-…

Bewildered

Richard Powers

The host discusses how Richard Powers' book 'Bewildered' reflects a shift in his writing influenced by nature rather…

connection between humans and nature(1)human exceptionalism(1)impact of literature on perception(1)importance of forests(1)interdependence in forests(1)relationship with technology(1)Richard Powers' new book(1)technology and human relationship(1)

Book mentions8

Media mentions0

Event size39

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What is Best Of: This Conversation With Richard Powers Is a Gift about?

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for Best Of: This Conversation With Richard Powers Is a Gift on The Ezra Klein Show.

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The conversation centers on connection between humans and nature.
A second recurring theme is human exceptionalism.
Referenced books include How to be Animal by Melanie Challenger and Evergreen by John Reed and Thomas Love.
The strongest audience signal points to Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-animal relations. and Environmentalists and conservation advocates.

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Which books are mentioned in Best Of: This Conversation With Richard Powers Is a Gift?

How to be Animal by Melanie Challenger, Evergreen by John Reed and Thomas Love, and Finding the Mother Tree by Dr. Suzanne Simard are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.

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Mention sentiment

Deep Dive(5)Highly Recommended(3)

Audience signals

Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-animal relations.Environmentalists and conservation advocatesEcologists, environmentalists, and anyone interested in forest ecology.Readers interested in environmental issues and literatureReaders interested in climate issues and cognitive empathyReaders interested in the intersection of technology, community, and empathy

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer quote context, and better timestamp support rise first.

Melanie Challenger

Best for Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-animal relations.Often cited around human exceptionalism

“A remarkable combination of biology, genetics, zoology, evolutionary psychology, and philosophy, exploring human exceptionalism.”

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Sentiment: Highly Recommended

Trigger: human exceptionalism

For: Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-animal relations.

Key quote: “I think it's one of the better explorations and refutations of human exceptionalism that I've read.”

The host mentions 'How to be Animal' as a significant exploration of the relationship between humans and non-humans, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging our animal nature. The book is highlighted for its blend of various scientific disciplines and its challenge to the notion of human exceptionalism.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

John Reed and Thomas Love

Best for Environmentalists and conservation advocatesOften cited around importance of forests

“A book making the case that the remaining great primary forests are keys to preserving biodiversity and indigenous cultures.”

View mention details

Sentiment: Highly Recommended

Trigger: importance of forests

For: Environmentalists and conservation advocates

Key quote: “it's a book by the economist John Reed and the conservation biologist Thomas Love.”

The host mentions 'Evergreen' to highlight its critical examination of the remaining primary forests and their role in biodiversity and climate stability. The book is presented as a practical guide for preserving these vital ecosystems.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Dr. Suzanne Simard

Best for Ecologists, environmentalists, and anyone interested in forest ecology.Often cited around interdependence in forests

“The speaker references Dr. Suzanne Simard's book 'Finding the Mother Tree', which discusses underground connections in forests and challenges old forestry beliefs.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: interdependence in forests

For: Ecologists, environmentalists, and anyone interested in forest ecology.

Key quote: “Simard has been instrumental in a revolution in our way of thinking about what's happening underground.”

The host mentions 'Finding the Mother Tree' to highlight Dr. Suzanne Simard's groundbreaking research on the underground networks of trees and their interdependence. This book exemplifies a shift from viewing forests as competitive environments to recognizing the complex cooperation among species.

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Overstory

Best for Readers interested in environmental issues and literatureOften cited around impact of literature on perception

“I was researching the book, Overstory, and kept reading that if you wanted to see what good primary old-growth eastern forests look like, that the Smokies was great.”

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Sentiment: Highly Recommended

Trigger: impact of literature on perception

For: Readers interested in environmental issues and literature

Key quote: “I love The Overstory. I loved it. I've never walked through a forest the same way again.”

The host mentions 'The Overstory' to highlight its profound impact on how individuals perceive nature and their relationship with the environment. He emphasizes its significance by referencing Barack Obama's endorsement, illustrating its transformative effect on readers' thoughts about the earth.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Bewilderment

Richard Powers

Best for Readers interested in climate issues and cognitive empathyOften cited around Richard Powers' new book

“Powers has a new book out, Bewilderment. It is about our cognition, our brainwaves, the way we can live in a time of wonders, but also of horrors.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: Richard Powers' new book

For: Readers interested in climate issues and cognitive empathy

Key quote: “It is an enchanting and my God, it is a devastating book.”

The host discusses Richard Powers' new book, 'Bewilderment,' in the context of its thematic connection to his previous work, 'The Overstory.' He emphasizes how 'Bewilderment' explores the limits of cognitive empathy and the challenges of living in a time of both wonders and horrors.

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Rooted

Liander Lynn Haupt

Best for Readers interested in the intersection of technology, community, and empathyOften cited around technology and human relationship

“A personal series of short meditations on the living world, weaving together scientific and spiritual knowledge.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: technology and human relationship

For: Readers interested in the intersection of technology, community, and empathy

Key quote: “The book does introduce this kind of fable, this kind of thought experiment about the way, the affordances that a new and slightly stronger technology of empathy might deflect.”

The host mentions 'Rooted' to illustrate how technology, including religion and community structures, shapes human interactions and societal norms. The book serves as a thought experiment that explores the implications of new technologies on empathy and community dynamics.

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Braiding Sweetgrass

Robin Wall Kimmerer

Best for Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-nature connectionsOften cited around connection between humans and nature

“A great book that attempts to weave together scientific and spiritual knowledge.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: connection between humans and nature

For: Readers interested in environmental philosophy and human-nature connections

Key quote: “I put this book in the kind of context or kind of tradition or sharing the spirit of Robin Wall Kimmerer's great book, Braiding Sweetgrass.”

The host mentions 'Braiding Sweetgrass' to highlight its exploration of the relationship between humans and the more-than-human world. It is presented as a work that weaves together scientific and spiritual knowledge, similar to other recommended books.

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Bewildered

Richard Powers

Best for Readers interested in the intersection of nature and technologyOften cited around relationship with technology

“The new book that will stay with the speaker for a very long time.”

View mention details

Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: relationship with technology

For: Readers interested in the intersection of nature and technology

Key quote: “I think there is nothing more science inflected than being out in the living world and the more than human world.”

The host discusses how Richard Powers' book 'Bewildered' reflects a shift in his writing influenced by nature rather than technology. This transition highlights a deeper understanding of interdependence in the natural world and how it shapes human experience.

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How to be Animal

The Ezra Klein Show · 1:23:48

I think it's one of the better explorations and refutations of human exceptionalism that I've read.

Evergreen

The Ezra Klein Show · 1:25:32

it's a book by the economist John Reed and the conservation biologist Thomas Love.

Finding the Mother Tree

The Ezra Klein Show · 24:10

Simard has been instrumental in a revolution in our way of thinking about what's happening underground.

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Buy links stay tied to the same book cards and timestamps shown above.

Mentioned at 1:23:48

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Melanie Challenger

The host mentions 'How to be Animal' as a significant exploration of the relationship between humans and non-humans, emphasizing the importance of…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Mentioned at 1:25:32

Check price Jump to mention

John Reed and Thomas Love

The host mentions 'Evergreen' to highlight its critical examination of the remaining primary forests and their role in biodiversity and climate sta…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Mentioned at 24:10