Skip to content
Back to The Ezra Klein Show
The Ezra Klein Show artwork
Indexed 10 source moments

The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School

Summary, books mentioned, source context, and timestamps for The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School on The Ezra Klein Show.

Listen
Loading the embedded player…
Context before you listen

The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School includes mentions of Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution by Gordon Wood, Rebecca's Revival by John Sensbach, A Midwife's Tale by Laurel Ulrich, and The Negro in the American Revolution by Benjamin Quarles, with indexed source context and timestamps where available.

3 books from this episode

Indexed context: The host references Gordon Wood's article to highlight the importance of understanding class conflict in the context of the American Revolution. This…

Rebecca's Revival
John Sensbach

Indexed context: The host mentions 'Rebecca's Revival' to highlight a compelling story of love and resilience amidst racial conflict. This book illustrates the comple…

A Midwife's Tale
Laurel Ulrich

Indexed context: The host mentions 'A Midwife's Tale' as a source of inspiration, highlighting the meticulous documentation of a midwife's experiences in early Americ…

Episode summary
There are few periods of U.S. history that are as vigorously debated, as emotionally and civically charged as the American Revolution. And for good reason: How Americans interpret that period — its heroes, its villains, its legacy — shapes how we understand our social foundations, our national identity, our shared political project. Woody Holton is a historian at the University of South Carolina, a leading scholar of America’s founding and the author of numerous books on the period, including, most recently, “Liberty Is Sweet: The Hidden History of the American Revolution.” Holton’s work presents a fundamental challenge to the version of the American Revolution that most of us were taught in grade school. In his telling, America’s “founding fathers” were far less central to the country’s founding than we imagine. Class conflict was just as important a cause of the Revolution as aspirational ideals, if not more. And the way Holton sees things, the American Constitution was a fundamentally capitalist document designed to rein in democracy, not expand it. But Holton’s work shouldn’t be understood solely as a revisionist account of a particular era in history. It also provides a unique lens for rethinking some of the defining features of our present — the disconnect between the kinds of policies that democratic majorities support and what our systems of government enable, the fervor to which we cling to national heroes like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, the enduring challenges of governing a fractious, deeply divided society, the complex relationship between material interests and ideology and much more. Mentioned “Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution” by Gordon S. Wood The Framers’ Coup by Michael J. Klarman Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution by Woody Holton Book recommendations A Midwife’s Tale by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich The Negro in the American Revolution by Benjamin Quarles Rebecca’s Revival by Jon F. Sensbach This episode is guest-hosted by Jamelle Bouie, a New York Times columnist whose work focuses on the intersection of politics and history. Before joining The Times in 2019, he was the chief political correspondent for Slate magazine. You can read his work here and follow him on Twitter @jbouie. (Learn more about the other guest hosts during Ezra’s parental leave here.) You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.
Mention timeline

Jump between the book moments.

View every mention
Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution
Gordon Wood

The host references Gordon Wood's article to highlight the importance of understanding class conflict in the context…

Card
Rebecca's Revival
John Sensbach

The host mentions 'Rebecca's Revival' to highlight a compelling story of love and resilience amidst racial conflict.…

Card
A Midwife's Tale
Laurel Ulrich

The host mentions 'A Midwife's Tale' as a source of inspiration, highlighting the meticulous documentation of a midwi…

Card
The Negro in the American Revolution
Benjamin Quarles

The host mentions 'The Negro in the American Revolution' to highlight the nuanced roles of African Americans during t…

Card
Liberty is Sweet

The host mentions 'Liberty is Sweet' to highlight how it challenges traditional narratives of the American Revolution…

Card
The American Revolution
Bernard Balin

The host mentions 'The American Revolution' to highlight how Woody Holton's work challenges traditional narratives ab…

Card
Unruly Americans and the Origin of the Constitution

The host discusses the historical context of the Constitution and its creation, emphasizing the economic crisis that…

Card
The Framers' Coup

The host discusses the interpretation of the American Revolution and its culmination in the Constitution, referencing…

Card
Book mentions10
Media mentions0
Quick answers

Quick FAQ

Answers to common summary, books, and takeaway questions for this episode.

What is The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School about?

Summary, books mentioned, source context, and timestamps for The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School on The Ezra Klein Show.

What are the main takeaways from The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School?

These themes are drawn from the indexed episode description and linked mentions for The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School.

  • The conversation centers on African Americans in Revolution.
  • A second recurring theme is American Revolution and Constitution.
  • Referenced books include Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution by Gordon Wood and Rebecca's Revival by John Sensbach.
  • Related interests include Students and scholars of American history and Readers interested in history and racial dynamics.

Which books are mentioned in The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School?

Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution by Gordon Wood, Rebecca's Revival by John Sensbach, and A Midwife's Tale by Laurel Ulrich are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to source cards and timestamps where available.

How can I check the source context for The Story of America's Founding You Weren’t Taught in School?

This page brings together episode context, book references, and links back to the source audio. Indexed descriptions help locate a passage; listening to the episode provides its original wording and context.

Topics in this conversation

Explore the subjects connected to the book mentions below.

Mention types
Deep Dive(6)Critical Analysis(2)Highly Recommended(2)
Related interests
Students and scholars of American historyReaders interested in history and racial dynamicsHistorians and those interested in women's historyHistorians and students of American historyHistorians and those interested in American historyHistorians and political science students

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer source context, and better timestamp support rise first.

Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution cover
Best for Students and scholars of American historyOften cited around class conflict in revolution

Indexed context

One of my favorite articles by Gordon Wood is called Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution, discussing the influence of material interests and ideology.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Students and scholars of American history
Indexed context: Even if you accept that people are primarily influenced by their material interest, and he was kind of conceding that possibility in that article, something he doesn't always say.
The host references Gordon Wood's article to highlight the importance of understanding class conflict in the context of the American Revolution. This perspective challenges traditional narratives that focus solely on ideological conflicts, suggesting a more nuanced view of historical motivations.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Rebecca's Revival cover
Rebecca's Revival
John Sensbach
Best for Readers interested in history and racial dynamicsOften cited around racial reconciliation in history

Indexed context

It's about a woman who was born probably in slavery, but she was free by the time, this is in the Caribbean.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Readers interested in history and racial dynamics
Indexed context: This couple that so loved each other, that they were willing to go to jail rather than renounce their marriage.
The host mentions 'Rebecca's Revival' to highlight a compelling story of love and resilience amidst racial conflict. This book illustrates the complexities of race and marriage during a tumultuous period in history, making it a significant read for understanding these themes.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
A Midwife's Tale cover
A Midwife's Tale
Laurel Ulrich
Best for Historians and those interested in women's historyOften cited around importance of historical understanding

Indexed context

It's nonfiction. And it's about a midwife in Maine who kept a very meticulous diary between 1785 and 1812.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Historians and those interested in women's history
Indexed context: The one that I keep coming back to for tremendous inspiration is by a then University of New Hampshire professor named Laurel Ulrich.
The host mentions 'A Midwife's Tale' as a source of inspiration, highlighting the meticulous documentation of a midwife's experiences in early America. This book serves as a reminder of the importance of understanding history through personal narratives and the lives of individuals who contributed to society.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
The Negro in the American Revolution cover
Best for Historians and students of American historyOften cited around African Americans in Revolution

Indexed context

What’s unique about what Benjamin Quarles did in 1961 in Negro in the American Revolution was say, yes, that was a great thing.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Historians and students of American history
Indexed context: The great line from Quarles' book is they weren't loyal to the patriots. They weren't loyal to the British. They were loyal to a principle.
The host mentions 'The Negro in the American Revolution' to highlight the nuanced roles of African Americans during the conflict, emphasizing their loyalty to the principles of freedom rather than to specific sides. This book serves as a critical resource for understanding the complexities of Black history in the context of the American Revolution.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Liberty is Sweet cover
Best for Historians and those interested in American historyOften cited around American Revolution history

Indexed context

Holton's work presents a truly fundamental challenge to the version of that history that most of us were taught in grade school. His new book, Liberty is Sweet, The Hidden History of the American Revolution, looks at the ways that often overlooked groups of people shaped the war.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Historians and those interested in American history
Indexed context: Holton takes a much wider view of the revolutionary era beyond the traditional founding fathers and their professed ideas.
The host mentions 'Liberty is Sweet' to highlight how it challenges traditional narratives of the American Revolution. Woody Holton's work emphasizes the contributions of often overlooked groups and presents a broader understanding of the era's complexities.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
The American Revolution cover
Best for Historians and students of American historyOften cited around historical context of revolution

Indexed context

Balin's great insight was that the American Revolution was an emotional event, focusing on the ideologies and the emotional origins behind it.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Historians and students of American history
Indexed context: Holton takes a much wider view of the revolutionary era beyond the traditional founding fathers and their professed ideas.
The host mentions 'The American Revolution' to highlight how Woody Holton's work challenges traditional narratives about the founding of America. Holton's broader perspective includes the roles of marginalized groups, which reshapes our understanding of the revolutionary era.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Unruly Americans and the Origin of the Constitution cover
Best for Historians and political science studentsOften cited around Constitution and economic crisis

Indexed context

The speaker discusses their book which argues that the economic crisis leading to the Constitution was caused by elites, contrary to popular belief.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Historians and political science students
Indexed context: I did a whole book of this called Unruly Americans and the Origin of the Constitution, where I argued that, well, let's look at that economic crisis that was supposedly the rednecks fault and cleaned up by their elite.
The host discusses the historical context of the Constitution and its creation, emphasizing the economic crisis that influenced its authors. They reference the book 'Unruly Americans and the Origin of the Constitution' to argue that the elites, rather than the common people, were responsible for the economic issues that led to the Constitution's drafting.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
The Framers' Coup cover
Best for Historians and students of American political historyOften cited around American Revolution and Constitution

Indexed context

There's a Harvard professor who published a book on this recently entitled The Framers' Coup, suggesting the Constitution represents a counter-revolution.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Historians and students of American political history
Indexed context: there's a Harvard professor who published a book on this recently entitled The Framers' Coup, that there's a real sense in which the Constitution represents a counter-revolution against what was going on up until the Framers met in the summer of 1787 in Philadelphia to write the Constitution.
The host discusses the interpretation of the American Revolution and its culmination in the Constitution, referencing the book 'The Framers' Coup' to highlight a counter-revolutionary perspective. This book argues that the Constitution was a response to the democratic excesses that emerged during the Revolution, a viewpoint the host finds compelling.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
the origins of the Constitution cover
Best for Historians and political science studentsOften cited around economic crisis and Constitution

Indexed context

The speaker references Gordon Wood's book, which presents a different perspective on the Constitution's origins, describing it as an elitist document.

View mention details
Sentiment: Critical Analysis
For: Historians and political science students
Indexed context: I disagree with Gordon Wood, who wrote a beautiful book about the origins of the Constitution.
The host critiques Gordon Wood's interpretation of the Constitution's origins, arguing that the economic crisis leading to its creation was actually caused by the elites. This perspective challenges the notion that the Constitution was a necessary solution to the recession, suggesting instead that the authors were part of the problem.
Amazon search results · affiliate link
Find on Amazon
The 1619 Project cover
Best for Historians and educators interested in American historyOften cited around American Revolution narrative

Indexed context

The battle over the 1619 Project highlights the intense focus and dispute over the nature of the American Revolution.

View mention details
Sentiment: Critical Analysis
For: Historians and educators interested in American history
Indexed context: The stakes of this historiographical battle seem almost existential, I think, to a lot of people.
The host discusses the intense debate surrounding the 1619 Project and its implications for understanding the American Revolution. They highlight the importance of shared historical narratives in a diverse society to prevent division and conflict.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Book picks by email

Get more book picks with podcast context.

Sign up for book picks with source context and links to the original conversations.

Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution
The Ezra Klein Show · 25:24
Indexed context: The host references Gordon Wood's article to highlight the importance of understanding class conflict in the context of the American Revolution. This…
Rebecca's Revival
The Ezra Klein Show · 57:51
Indexed context: The host mentions 'Rebecca's Revival' to highlight a compelling story of love and resilience amidst racial conflict. This book illustrates the comple…
A Midwife's Tale
The Ezra Klein Show · 55:34
Indexed context: The host mentions 'A Midwife's Tale' as a source of inspiration, highlighting the meticulous documentation of a midwife's experiences in early Americ…
Register your interest in podcast book picks.
Shop This Episode

Pick up the books after you hear them in context.

Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution cover
Mentioned at 25:24
Rhetoric and Reality in the American Revolution
Gordon Wood

The host references Gordon Wood's article to highlight the importance of understanding class conflict in the context of the American Revolution. Th…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Rebecca's Revival cover
Mentioned at 57:51
Rebecca's Revival
John Sensbach

The host mentions 'Rebecca's Revival' to highlight a compelling story of love and resilience amidst racial conflict. This book illustrates the comp…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
A Midwife's Tale cover
Mentioned at 55:34
A Midwife's Tale
Laurel Ulrich

The host mentions 'A Midwife's Tale' as a source of inspiration, highlighting the meticulous documentation of a midwife's experiences in early Amer…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Movies & Documentaries Mentioned

No movie or documentary mentions yet

This episode does not have extracted media mentions yet.