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The Ezra Klein ShowFeb 19, 2021
What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World
Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World on The Ezra Klein Show.
Notable books mentioned: The Braindead Megaphone by George Saunders, Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders, A Swim in the Pond in the Rain by George Saunders, Hope Against Hope by Nadezhda Mandelstam
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Mentioned at 1:38
The Braindead MegaphoneGeorge Saunders
Ezra Klein mentions 'The Braindead Megaphone' to highlight how George Saunders' work has profoundly impacted his understanding of media. He emphasi…
Mentioned at 1:48
Lincoln in the BardoGeorge Saunders
Ezra Klein highlights George Saunders' profound influence on his thinking, particularly through his works like 'Lincoln in the Bardo.' The mention…
Mentioned at 2:46
A Swim in the Pond in the RainGeorge Saunders
The host discusses George Saunders' new book, 'A Swim in the Pond in the Rain,' which explores seven short stories by Russian masters and the insig…
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What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World
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Episode summary, books & quotes
What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World mentions The Braindead Megaphone by George Saunders, Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders, A Swim in the Pond in the Rain by George Saunders, and Hope Against Hope by Nadezhda Mandelstam with timestamps, quotes, and episode context.
Episode summary
George Saunders is one of America’s greatest living writers. He’s the author of dozens of critically acclaimed short stories, including his 2013 collection, “Tenth of December”; his debut novel, “Lincoln in the Bardo,” won the 2017 Booker Prize; and his nonfiction work has empathy and insight that leave pieces from more than a decade ago ringing in my head today. His most recent book, “A Swim in A Pond in the Rain,” is a literary master class built around seven Russian short stories, analyzing how they work, and what they reveal about how we work. I’ve wanted to interview Saunders for more than 15 years. I first saw him talk when I was in college, and there was a quality of compassion and consideration in every response that was, well, strange. His voice doesn’t sound like his fiction. His fiction is bitingly satirical, manic, often unsettling. His voice is calm, kind, gracious. The dissonance stuck with me. Saunders’s central topic, literalized in his famous 2013 commencement speech, is about what it means to be kind in an unkind world. And that’s the organizing question of this conversation, too. We discuss the collisions between capitalism and human relations, the relationship between writing and meditation, Saunders’s personal editing process, the tension between empathizing with others and holding them to account, the promise of re-localizing our politics, the way our minds deceive us, Tolstoy’s unusual theory of personal transformation, and much more. What a pleasure this conversation was. So worth the wait. Recommendations: "Red Cavalry" by Isaac Babel "Stamped from the Beginning" by Ibram X. Kendi "Dispatches" by Michael Herr "Patriotic Gore" by Edmund Wilson "In Love with the World" by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche "Loving; Living; Party Going" by Henry Green "Scrambled Eggs & Whiskey" by Hayden Carruth "Tropic of Squalor" by Mary Carr "They Lift Their Wings to Cry" by Brooks Haxton "The Hundred Dresses" by Eleanor Estes and Louis Slobodkin "Caps for Sale" by Esphyr Slobodkina You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.
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Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World on The Ezra Klein Show.
What are the main takeaways from What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World?
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- The conversation centers on children's book recommendations.
- A second recurring theme is importance of fiction.
- Referenced books include The Braindead Megaphone by George Saunders and Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders.
- The strongest audience signal points to Readers interested in media, kindness, and literature and Readers interested in literature that explores kindness and human connection..
Which books are mentioned in What It Means to be Kind in a Cruel World?
The Braindead Megaphone by George Saunders, Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders, and A Swim in the Pond in the Rain by George Saunders are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.
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Topic and sentiment signals
Aggregated from transcript-derived mention metadata for better topical navigation and citation.
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Mention sentiment
Highly Recommended(11)Deep Dive(3)Passing Reference(2)
Audience signals
Readers interested in media, kindness, and literatureReaders interested in literature that explores kindness and human connection.Readers interested in literature and personal growthReaders interested in historical memoirs and mental resilienceReaders interested in impactful short stories and narrative techniques.Readers interested in exploring the depth of human experience through literature.
Books Mentioned
The Braindead Megaphone
George Saunders
Best for Readers interested in media, kindness, and literatureOften cited around George Saunders' influence
“It's a book of his nonfiction essays. It came out long ago. But it has changed how I think about media to this day.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: George Saunders' influence
For: Readers interested in media, kindness, and literature
Key quote: “The Braindead Megaphone is a book of his nonfiction essays.”
Ezra Klein mentions 'The Braindead Megaphone' to highlight how George Saunders' work has profoundly impacted his understanding of media. He emphasizes the kindness and wisdom present in Saunders' writing, which resonates with his own values.
ASIN: 159448256X
Buy on AmazonLincoln in the Bardo
George Saunders
Best for Readers interested in literature that explores kindness and human connection.Often cited around George Saunders' literary impact
“His novel is just a remarkable piece of work.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: George Saunders' literary impact
For: Readers interested in literature that explores kindness and human connection.
Key quote: “The thing about Saunders' work to me is always that there is a kindness and a wisdom to it.”
Ezra Klein highlights George Saunders' profound influence on his thinking, particularly through his works like 'Lincoln in the Bardo.' The mention of this book underscores Saunders' exploration of kindness and humanity, which resonates deeply with Klein's own values.
ASIN: 8954653421
Buy on AmazonA Swim in the Pond in the Rain
George Saunders
Best for Readers interested in literature and personal growthOften cited around George Saunders' new book
“His new book is about seven short stories by Russian masters and about what he took from them.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
Trigger: George Saunders' new book
For: Readers interested in literature and personal growth
Key quote: “His new book, A Swim in the Pond in the Rain, is about seven short stories by Russian masters and about what he took from them and how the stories work on a basic level, but then also what kinds of habits of mind they reflect.”
The host discusses George Saunders' new book, 'A Swim in the Pond in the Rain,' which explores seven short stories by Russian masters and the insights they provide about literature and life. This book reflects Saunders' ongoing preoccupation with kindness and wisdom in human interactions.
ASIN: 1526624281
Buy on AmazonHope Against Hope
Nadezhda Mandelstam
Best for Readers interested in historical memoirs and mental resilienceOften cited around literature and mental health
“It's this beautiful memoir about the Stalinist time.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
Trigger: literature and mental health
For: Readers interested in historical memoirs and mental resilience
Key quote: “it's this beautiful memoir about the Stalinist time.”
The host mentions 'Hope Against Hope' as a way to reflect on the current challenging times by drawing parallels to historical suffering. This memoir serves as a reminder that while times may be tough, they could be worse, providing a perspective that helps maintain mental balance.
ASIN: 110190836X
Buy on AmazonRed Cavalry
Isaac Babel
Best for Readers interested in impactful short stories and narrative techniques.Often cited around importance of fiction
“A book of short stories about the Russian invasion of Poland after the revolution, considered a stylistic masterpiece.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: importance of fiction
For: Readers interested in impactful short stories and narrative techniques.
Key quote: “I think it was probably a red cavalry by the Russian writer Isaac Babel.”
The host mentions 'Red Cavalry' as a significant influence on their understanding of short stories and narrative depth. They highlight its stylistic mastery and its impact on their perception of storytelling, particularly in relation to historical events.
ASIN: 0393324230
Buy on AmazonBest for Readers interested in exploring the depth of human experience through literature.Often cited around importance of fiction
“A book that captures the feeling of being alive, revisited for its profound impact.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
Trigger: importance of fiction
For: Readers interested in exploring the depth of human experience through literature.
Key quote: “I go back to Google's dead souls a lot, just because I love it so much.”
The host mentions 'Dead Souls' as a significant work that captures the essence of being alive, reflecting on its profound impact on their understanding of life. They revisit the book frequently, seeking to grasp the reasons behind its resonance with them.
ASIN: 0679776443
Buy on AmazonStamped from the Beginning
Ibram X. Kendi
Best for Individuals seeking to understand racial issuesOften cited around life-changing books
“A life-changing book that the speaker has given out multiple times.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: life-changing books
For: Individuals seeking to understand racial issues
Key quote: “A life-changing book that the speaker has given out multiple times.”
The host emphasizes the transformative impact of 'Stamped from the Beginning' and its importance in understanding racial history. They have personally shared this book with others, indicating its value in sparking meaningful conversations.
ASIN: 1984859439
Buy on AmazonDispatches
Michael Herr
Best for Readers interested in war literature and emotional storytelling.Often cited around Vietnam War literature
“A beautifully written work about Vietnam that captures different mind states.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: Vietnam War literature
For: Readers interested in war literature and emotional storytelling.
Key quote: “I really love dispatches by Michael hair, which is the great, uh, Vietnam work.”
The host mentions 'Dispatches' as a significant work that captures the complexities of the Vietnam War experience. They appreciate the author's ability to convey varying emotional states and perspectives throughout the narrative.
ASIN: 0679735259
Buy on AmazonPatriotic Gore
Edmund Wilson
Best for Readers interested in literary history and cultural analysis.Often cited around book recommendations
“A series of sketches of 19th-century literary figures, evoking a vanished world.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: book recommendations
For: Readers interested in literary history and cultural analysis.
Key quote: “it's just a really beautiful evocation of, of a world that was totally as real as ours that has vanished.”
The host mentions 'Patriotic Gore' as a significant recommendation from Michael, who influenced his writing. The book offers a rich exploration of 19th-century literary figures, providing insight into a cultural moment that feels both real and elusive.
ASIN: 0393312569
Buy on AmazonIn Love with the World
Mingyur Rinpoche
Best for Readers interested in Buddhism and personal growthOften cited around favorite work on Buddhism
“A book that skillfully presents basic ideas about Buddhism through a narrative pilgrimage.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: favorite work on Buddhism
For: Readers interested in Buddhism and personal growth
Key quote: “I really loved and I loved it because it, it did that work of kind of jolting me to attention, uh, was a book by Mingyur Rinpoche called in love with the world.”
The host mentioned 'In Love with the World' by Mingyur Rinpoche as a recent read that jolted him to attention. He appreciates how the book skillfully integrates basic Buddhist ideas in a way that feels alive and urgent.
ASIN: 0525512543
Buy on AmazonScramble Legs and Whiskey
Hayden Carruth
Best for people new to poetryOften cited around recommendation for poetry
“A collection of accessible, emotional, and funny poems.”
View mention details
Key quote: “he has a beautiful book called, uh, scramble legs and whiskey, just a real, real accessible, emotional, funny poems.”
The host mentions 'Scramble Legs and Whiskey' by Hayden Carruth as a beautiful and accessible collection of poems that resonate emotionally and humorously. This recommendation is aimed at those who may not often read poetry but are looking for something relatable and engaging.
ASIN: 1556591101
Buy on AmazonTropic of Squalor
Mary Carr
Best for Readers looking for accessible poetryOften cited around recommendations for poetry
“A lovely book of poetry recommended for its emotional resonance.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Passing Reference
Trigger: recommendations for poetry
For: Readers looking for accessible poetry
Key quote: “Mary Carr, uh, has a lovely book called Tropic of Squalor.”
The host briefly mentions 'Tropic of Squalor' by Mary Carr as a recommendation for accessible and emotional poetry. This mention is part of a larger discussion about poetry that resonates with personal experience.
ASIN: 0062699830
Buy on AmazonThey Lift Their Wings to Cry
Brooks Haxton
Best for Readers looking to explore accessible and emotionally resonant poetry.Often cited around recommendation of poetry books
“A recommended poetry book that communicates directly with the reader's experience.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: recommendation of poetry books
For: Readers looking to explore accessible and emotionally resonant poetry.
Key quote: “I think I would also recommend, uh, the work of two of my colleagues. Mary Carr, uh, has a lovely book called Tropic of Squalor and in Brooke Brooks Haxton has one called they lift their wings to cry.”
The host mentions Brooks Haxton's book 'They Lift Their Wings to Cry' as a recommendation for those who may not often read poetry. They emphasize the importance of poetry that speaks directly to personal experiences and communicates deeper meanings effectively.
ASIN: 0307268454
Buy on AmazonBest for parents looking for meaningful children's literatureOften cited around children's book recommendations
“A great short story about empathy and perception, recommended for children.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: children's book recommendations
For: parents looking for meaningful children's literature
Key quote: “it's a great story. It's a great short story actually about, uh, a little girl who's, who's, uh, perceived one way. And then we find out that it was very different actually behind the scenes.”
The host mentions 'The Hundred Dresses' as a powerful story that fosters empathy in children. They highlight its depth and the importance of understanding different perspectives, making it a valuable read for young audiences.
ASIN: 0152052607
Buy on AmazonBest for Parents looking for children's booksOften cited around children's book recommendations
“A playful children's book about a cap seller, recommended for its simplicity and fun.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Passing Reference
Trigger: children's book recommendations
For: Parents looking for children's books
Key quote: “I also like, I used to love this book with our kids called caps for sale.”
The host mentioned 'Caps for Sale' as a playful and goofy children's book that he enjoyed reading with his kids. He highlighted the delight in language found in children's literature, contrasting it with adult literature.
ASIN: 0064431436
Buy on AmazonBest for Aspiring writers and literature enthusiastsOften cited around masterclass on writing
“A book that offers a masterclass on writing, reading, and life through Russian literature.”
View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
Trigger: masterclass on writing
For: Aspiring writers and literature enthusiasts
Key quote: “your book is a swim in a pond in the rain in which four Russians give a masterclass on writing, reading and life.”
The host mentions 'A Swim in a Pond in the Rain' as a valuable resource that provides insights into writing, reading, and life through the lens of Russian literature. This book is highlighted for its ability to communicate profound truths about writing and storytelling.
ASIN: 1984856030
Buy on AmazonMovies & Documentaries Mentioned
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