Ross Douthat on Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics

Stephen Barr

the best overall survey of sort of where arguments in modern physics that relate to religion stand and how a reasonable person might think about reli…

Thomas Nagel

a book called Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel, who's a famous philosopher, not religious, but arguing for the fundamental limits and problems with a…

Ada Palmer

I've been reading about the Renaissance recently, Ada Palmer's great book on inventing the Renaissance.

Episode summary

I have no earthly idea how to describe this conversation. It’s about religion and belief – at this moment in our politics, and in our lives more generally. My guest and I come from very different perspectives. Ross Douthat is a Catholic conservative, who wrote a book called “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” I’m a … Californian. But I think everyone would enjoy this conversation — believers, skeptics and seekers alike. Some questions touched on: Is the Trump administration Christian or pagan? How do Christian Trump supporters reconcile the cruelties of this administration with their faith? Can religious experiences be explained by misfiring neurons? Should organized religions embrace psychedelics? Can mystery provide more comfort than certainty? And if you do enjoy this episode, be sure to check out Douthat’s new New York Times Opinion Audio show “Interesting Times,” available wherever you get your podcasts, and on YouTube. Mentioned: Interesting Times with Ross Douthat “Donald Trump, Man of Destiny” by Ross Douthat Living with a Wild God by Barbara Ehrenreich Book Recommendations: Modern Physics and Ancient Faith by Stephen Barr After by Bruce Greyson Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota and Efim Shapiro. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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Stephen Barr

The host mentions 'Ancient Physics and Modern Faith' as a significant work that surveys the relationship between mode…

Thomas Nagel

The host mentions 'Mind and Cosmos' to highlight its controversial stance against a purely materialist view of consci…

Ada Palmer

The host discusses the complexities of organized religions and their historical significance, referencing Ada Palmer'…

Living with a Wild God

Barbara Ehrenreich

The host discusses Barbara Ehrenreich's book 'Living with a Wild God' to illustrate the persistence of religious expe…

After

Bruce Grayson

The host mentions the book 'After' in the context of discussing the unpredictable forces in history and politics. Thi…

Barbara Ehrenreich example

The host references Barbara Ehrenreich to illustrate the complexity of religious experiences that seem to arise spont…

Believe Why Everyone Should Be Religious

Ross Douthat

The host mentions Ross Douthat's book to highlight the ongoing conversation about mysticism and its influence in cont…

books on religion(1)Catholicism and religion's influence(1)materialist framework critique(1)mysticism in politics(1)religious experience and brain chemistry(1)religious experiences in secularism(1)role of religion in politics(1)

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The conversation centers on books on religion.
A second recurring theme is Catholicism and religion's influence.
Referenced books include Ancient Physics and Modern Faith by Stephen Barr and Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel.
The strongest audience signal points to listeners interested in the intersection of science and religion and listeners interested in philosophy and consciousness.

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Which books are mentioned in Ross Douthat on Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics?

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Deep Dive(4)Highly Recommended(2)Passing Reference(1)

Audience signals

listeners interested in the intersection of science and religionlisteners interested in philosophy and consciousnessIndividuals interested in religion, history, and philosophy.Readers interested in the intersection of secularism and spiritualityReaders interested in political philosophy and historical analysisIndividuals interested in the intersection of spirituality and neuroscience

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer quote context, and better timestamp support rise first.

Stephen Barr

Best for listeners interested in the intersection of science and religionOften cited around books on religion

“A survey of where arguments in modern physics that relate to religion stand and how a reasonable person might think about religion.”

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Sentiment: Highly Recommended

Trigger: books on religion

For: listeners interested in the intersection of science and religion

Key quote: “the best overall survey of sort of where arguments in modern physics that relate to religion stand and how a reasonable person might think about religion.”

The host mentions 'Ancient Physics and Modern Faith' as a significant work that surveys the relationship between modern physics and religion. They believe it offers an open-minded perspective that challenges conventional views on faith, making it a valuable read for those interested in the topic.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Thomas Nagel

Best for listeners interested in philosophy and consciousnessOften cited around materialist framework critique

“A controversial book arguing for the fundamental limits and problems with a materialist framework on the world.”

View mention details

Sentiment: Highly Recommended

Trigger: materialist framework critique

For: listeners interested in philosophy and consciousness

Key quote: “a book called Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel, who's a famous philosopher, not religious, but arguing for the fundamental limits and problems with a materialist framework on the world.”

The host mentions 'Mind and Cosmos' to highlight its controversial stance against a purely materialist view of consciousness. This book is recommended for those interested in understanding the philosophical debates surrounding consciousness and materialism.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Ada Palmer

Best for Individuals interested in religion, history, and philosophy.Often cited around Catholicism and religion's influence

“The mention of Ada Palmer's great book on inventing the Renaissance highlights the historical context of the Renaissance and its connection to the discussion on religion.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: Catholicism and religion's influence

For: Individuals interested in religion, history, and philosophy.

Key quote: “I've been reading about the Renaissance recently, Ada Palmer's great book on inventing the Renaissance.”

The host discusses the complexities of organized religions and their historical significance, referencing Ada Palmer's book to illustrate the intertwining of faith and political regimes. They argue that the survival of these religions suggests a deeper truth, despite their compromises over time.

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Living with a Wild God

Barbara Ehrenreich

Best for Readers interested in the intersection of secularism and spiritualityOften cited around religious experiences in secularism

“A book about a very secular person who had a lot of religious experiences, familiar to those described by William James or medieval Catholic mystics.”

View mention details

Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: religious experiences in secularism

For: Readers interested in the intersection of secularism and spirituality

Key quote: “And she, you know, didn't have sort of a framework, a conceptual framework to fully process them and wrote a great book, really interesting book about it.”

The host discusses Barbara Ehrenreich's book 'Living with a Wild God' to illustrate the persistence of religious experiences in a secular age. Ehrenreich, a well-known atheist, recounts her own profound encounters that challenge the notion of disenchantment in modern life.

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After

Bruce Grayson

Best for Readers interested in political philosophy and historical analysisOften cited around mysticism in politics

“An overview from a practicing physician's perspective on why people take near-death experiences seriously and its implications on a materialist worldview.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: mysticism in politics

For: Readers interested in political philosophy and historical analysis

Key quote: “I think one of the ways in which my sense of politics generally has changed over the course of my life is that I've been a man of destiny.”

The host mentions the book 'After' in the context of discussing the unpredictable forces in history and politics. This ties into the broader conversation about how certain personalities, like Donald Trump, can embody these forces and shape historical narratives.

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Barbara Ehrenreich example

Best for Individuals interested in the intersection of spirituality and neuroscienceOften cited around religious experience and brain chemistry

“The mention refers to the works of Barbara Ehrenreich, particularly in the context of religious experiences.”

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Sentiment: Deep Dive

Trigger: religious experience and brain chemistry

For: Individuals interested in the intersection of spirituality and neuroscience

Key quote: “And religious experience, again, to take the Barbara Ehrenreich example, there is the kind of religious experience that falls on people unbidden in some way.”

The host references Barbara Ehrenreich to illustrate the complexity of religious experiences that seem to arise spontaneously, challenging the notion that they can be solely explained by brain chemistry. This discussion emphasizes the relationship between our physical bodies and spiritual experiences, suggesting that there is more to these phenomena than mere chemical reactions.

Amazon search results · affiliate link

Find on Amazon

Believe Why Everyone Should Be Religious

Ross Douthat

Best for Individuals interested in the intersection of religion and politicsOften cited around role of religion in politics

“The author discusses his book, which argues for the importance of religion in people's lives, despite some questions the speaker has about it.”

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Sentiment: Passing Reference

Trigger: role of religion in politics

For: Individuals interested in the intersection of religion and politics

Key quote: “He's the author of Believe Why Everyone Should Be Religious, a book I enjoyed very much, even though quite a bit of it I had some questions about.”

The host mentions Ross Douthat's book to highlight the ongoing conversation about mysticism and its influence in contemporary politics. While the host enjoyed the book, he also expresses having some questions about its arguments.

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Weekly source-backed picks

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Ancient Physics and Modern Faith

The Ezra Klein Show · 1:35:21

the best overall survey of sort of where arguments in modern physics that relate to religion stand and how a reasonable person might think about reli…

Mind and Cosmos

The Ezra Klein Show · 1:36:46

a book called Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel, who's a famous philosopher, not religious, but arguing for the fundamental limits and problems with a…

inventing the Renaissance

The Ezra Klein Show · 53:52

I've been reading about the Renaissance recently, Ada Palmer's great book on inventing the Renaissance.

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Mentioned at 1:35:21

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Stephen Barr

The host mentions 'Ancient Physics and Modern Faith' as a significant work that surveys the relationship between modern physics and religion. They…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Mentioned at 1:36:46

Check price Jump to mention

Thomas Nagel

The host mentions 'Mind and Cosmos' to highlight its controversial stance against a purely materialist view of consciousness. This book is recommen…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

Mentioned at 53:52