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FoundersFeb 16, 2020

#111 David Geffen

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for #111 David Geffen on Founders.

Notable books mentioned: The Operator by Tom King, James Dyson's autobiography, Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Taleb, Buffett, The Making of an American Capitalist by Roger Lowenstein

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The Operator cover
Mentioned at 0:30
The Operator
Tom King

The host discusses the complexities of David Geffen's character and career, highlighting the ruthlessness that has defined his pursuit of success.…

James Dyson's autobiography cover
Mentioned at 3:50
James Dyson's autobiography

The host mentions James Dyson's autobiography as a prime example of a book that reflects the concept of having 'soul in the game.' Dyson's witty an…

Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life cover
Mentioned at 5:35
Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life
Nassim Taleb

The host discusses the concept of 'soul in the game' as articulated by Nassim Taleb in his book, emphasizing how it relates to the quality of work…

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#111 David Geffen
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Episode summary, books & quotes

#111 David Geffen mentions The Operator by Tom King, James Dyson's autobiography, Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Taleb, and Buffett, The Making of an American Capitalist by Roger Lowenstein with timestamps, quotes, and episode context.

Episode summary
What I learned from reading The Operator: David Geffen Builds, Buys, and Sells the New Hollywood by Tom King. ---- He told me he had recently read Buffett: The Making of an American Capitalist, Buffett was Geffen's hero.Geffen—with searing focus, unyielding drive, and outlandish nerve—had devised and implemented strategies to propel himself to the top of the heap of Hollywood powerbrokers.I used to have phone conversations with David that would leave me sweaty.David might not have realized it, but he was being educated by a master entrepreneur. Batya succeeded in teaching him the value of hard work and the possibilities of life under even the most difficult circumstances. She was a brilliant businesswoman who could account for every penny that went into and out of the enterprise. She kept her overhead low by driving hard bargains with her suppliers and by closely monitoring her expenses.His mother determinedly drilled into him the same advice she often repeated to herself. "You may not be very tall, but you will stand head and shoulders above everyone," she declared. "You think of yourself as head and shoulders above everyone else, and you will be."Arriving in Hollywood for the first time, David thought he had found paradise. It was even more intoxicating than he had imagined. His life's ambition was soon established after he read a new biography of MGM studio boss Louis B. Mayer called Hollywood Rajah. "I want this job," he thought to himself.He simply did not have the attention span that college required. He was eager to get into the real world.She told Geffen that some of the brightest lights in the entertainment business had gotten their start in the mailrooms of the major talent agencies. Although it was not a glamorous job, it was a way to get a foot in the door. Having tossed aside all notions of right and wrong, David Geffen simply lived by different rules than did the rest of society around him. Unconstrained by traditional ideas of acceptable social behavior, he was free to use all of the resources at his fingertips to achieve his lofty goals.Geffen simply worked harder than anyone else.The music department, he said, was the place where a young agent could make a name for himself. Brandt's advice had a profound impact on Geffen. He at once rejiggered his career plans.It was not an undying passion for music that made him decide to try to make his fortune in the business; he did it because he might get rich quickly.Geffen recognized that publishing was one of the areas in the music business where the real money was being made. Long after an artist's star has faded, publishers benefit financially for years to come, pocketing royalties whenever a group records a song or sheet music is sold.Having studied Clive Davis, he decided that he, too, had the savvy to make it in the record industry. It was not much of a stretch for him to envision David Geffen, the music mogul.He remained unsettled and plagued by feelings of insecurity and dissatisfaction. He was driven by a devil that constantly told him he needed to be bigger, more, and something else. He simply was not the kind of man who was going to stand in one place for very long.While he saw himself most of the time as the smart, fast-rising star he had become, there seemed to be fleeting, dreadful moments when his confidence shattered and he was gripped with fear.The way Geffen saw it, there was a natural synergy in owning both a record company and a management company. They could use the management company to book and promote the acts it was recording on the label and vice versa. Controlling both sides of the business. But the real advantage, Geffen explained, was that they could use the record deal, which came complete with Atlantic financing, to cover the overhead at the management company.From the day he opened his new business, Geffen had his eye fixed on the bottom line. He had the foresight to avoid the pitfalls that had proved fatal to so many others who had launched record labels before him. He was overhead averse and did not feel the urge to redecorate or to hire a large staff.For all his money, David Geffen was turning out to be rather frugal. He well understood that the delicate balance between profit and loss can be upset if expenses are high.Playing fair, Geffen had learned, was difficult and time-consuming; lying, on the other hand, was easy and effective.Just thirty, he claimed that his net worth was about twelve million dollars. But he was surprised to realize that the millions of dollars he had just banked and the trappings he had been able to acquire with it did not make him happy. It hit him when he was in London on a business trip, lying on a bed in a posh hotel, smoking a joint, and staring at the ceiling. All his life he had dreamed of being a multimillionaire, thinking that money would solve his problems. It had not, and he fell into a deep depression.Geffen saw immediately that Katzenberg had the hustler-like qualities that he himself had displayed at that age.Used to the relatively quick turnaround of record production, the slow-moving nature of the movie business made him agitated, nervous, and bored. Key to his recipe of success had been his ability to move quickly; but in the movie business, that same pacing proved to be a detriment, and it began to drive him crazy.It was to be the most important negotiation of Geffen's life, and he successfully extracted an extraordinary deal that within a few years helped make him one of the wealthiest men in the country. In pulling off the deal, he showed himself to be a shrewd, remarkably focused strategist. He had an uncanny ability to understand people, recognize their weaknesses, and capitalize on them. The negotiation also showed once again that Geffen had that rare ability to envision success: He clearly understood his power and knew how to get what he wanted.-- There was one thing Calvin Klein did not tell Geffen: His privately held fashion empire was on the brink of bankruptcy. Geffen surmised that the company should be transformed from a manufacturing firm to a design, marketing, and licensing company."You guys stink at manufacturing," he said. "You need to get out of that business."Instead, Geffen continued, the company needed to focus on what it really knew: how to design and market the Calvin Klein brand name."Calvin, you should only be focusing on the aesthetics," Geffen said. "You should just be designing the clothes and overseeing the marketing and advertising."Geffen reprimanded Klein and Schwartz for excesses they could not afford. Among other things, he told them to sell their company jet which cost them $2.5 million a year to maintain. He also told Klein to fire his chief financial officer and helped him hire Richard Martin, a top executive at Price Waterhouse, the accounting firm he himself used.Here was the "fixer" in action: David Geffen was now involved in the kind of problem solving that energized him more than anything else. --The idea of Geffen joining Katzenberg and Spielberg seemed a bit odd. For one thing, Geffen was Hollywood's greatest entrepreneur and nearly all of his successes were ones in which he alone had made the decisions."If I have to sit and convince somebody why I'm enthusiastic about something, I'm already depressed." The idea of himself as a partner was a strange one for David Geffen.I've been working on myself, and my demons and my nonsense and my fucked-up-ness for a long, long time. Which is not to say that I'm still not a little fucked up. I think you get better and better in tiny increments, and you die unhealed. ---- ---- Founders Notes gives you the ability to tap into the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand. Use it to supplement the decisions you make in your work. Get access to Founders Notes here. ---- “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast
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Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for #111 David Geffen on Founders.

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  • The conversation centers on soul in the game.
  • A second recurring theme is advice to young innovators.
  • Referenced books include The Operator by Tom King and James Dyson's autobiography.
  • The strongest audience signal points to Listeners interested in Hollywood history and complex personalities and Entrepreneurs and business leaders.

Which books are mentioned in #111 David Geffen?

The Operator by Tom King, James Dyson's autobiography, and Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Taleb are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.

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Mention sentiment
Deep Dive(6)Highly Recommended(2)
Audience signals
Listeners interested in Hollywood history and complex personalitiesEntrepreneurs and business leadersIndividuals interested in personal development and the complexities of successAspiring entrepreneurs and innovatorsIndividuals struggling with self-acceptance and societal pressuresIndividuals interested in the entertainment industry and personal development

Books Mentioned

The Operator cover
The Operator
Tom King
Best for Listeners interested in Hollywood history and complex personalitiesOften cited around David Geffen's career

With The Operator, Tom King, who interviewed Geffen for the book and had an unimpeded access to his circle of intimates, presented a mesmerizing chronicle of Geffen's meteoric rise from the mailroom at William Morris.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Listeners interested in Hollywood history and complex personalities
Key quote: But that's the other side of Geffen. one of the most ruthless people that I think I've ever, this is going to be an interesting podcast because he definitely is, David Geffen is definitely one of the most ruthless people that I've ever covered on the podcast.
The host discusses the complexities of David Geffen's character and career, highlighting the ruthlessness that has defined his pursuit of success. This leads to a mention of 'The Operator' by Tom King, which chronicles Geffen's rise and the Hollywood history intertwined with his story.
ASIN: 0767907574
Buy on Amazon
James Dyson's autobiography cover
Best for Entrepreneurs and business leadersOften cited around soul in the game

And this is how you kind of... One, if somebody has soul in the game, you'll notice it by the way they approach their work and the products they make, right? But also the way they talk. And so this is from James Dyson, his autobiography, which is one of my favorite books that I've ever read for the podcast.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Entrepreneurs and business leaders
Key quote: This is not even a business book. It is anything, or if anything, a book against business, against the principles that have filled the world with ugly, useless objects and unhappy people.
The host mentions James Dyson's autobiography as a prime example of a book that reflects the concept of having 'soul in the game.' Dyson's witty and confident writing style, along with his critique of business practices, resonates with the host's belief that businesses should be run with integrity and purpose.
ASIN: 8970879048
Buy on Amazon
Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life cover
Best for Entrepreneurs and business leadersOften cited around soul in the game

So I want to read this paragraph because I was going through a bunch of my notes and thinking about this this week. And I'm going to read this paragraph from this book called Skin in the Game, Hidden Asymmetries in Daily Life by Nassim Taleb.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Entrepreneurs and business leaders
Key quote: anything you do to optimize your work, cut corners or squeeze more efficiency out of it will eventually make you dislike it.
The host discusses the concept of 'soul in the game' as articulated by Nassim Taleb in his book, emphasizing how it relates to the quality of work and the happiness of individuals. The mention of the book serves to highlight the importance of passion and integrity in one's profession, contrasting it with those who lack such qualities.
ASIN: B08S9P3J1C
Buy on Amazon
Buffett, The Making of an American Capitalist cover
Best for Individuals interested in personal development and the complexities of successOften cited around Influence of biographies

Geffen was aggressively opposed to the idea and quickly ended the conversation. A week or so later, I called him again. He somewhat had, he softened somewhat, because he told me that he'd recently read Buffett, The Making of an American Capitalist.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals interested in personal development and the complexities of success
Key quote: Warren Buffett was Geffen's hero, and he applied that he would be pleased if his life merited a similar treatment.
The host discusses how David Geffen was influenced by biographies, particularly mentioning Warren Buffett as a significant figure in Geffen's life. This connection highlights the importance of understanding the complexities of successful individuals and the lessons that can be learned from their stories.
ASIN: B0G4JLMTVD
Buy on Amazon
Finding the Next Steve Jobs cover
Best for Aspiring entrepreneurs and innovatorsOften cited around advice to young innovators

The book that he wrote, which is Finding the Next Steve Jobs. He wrote that book because he's one of the very few people that was ever a boss to Steve Jobs.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Aspiring entrepreneurs and innovators
Key quote: I highly, highly recommend it.
The host mentions 'Finding the Next Steve Jobs' to highlight the impactful advice Nolan Bushnell gave to Steve Jobs, which parallels the encouragement David received from his mother. This book provides insights into the mindset and strategies that can lead to extraordinary success in business and creativity.
ASIN: 1476759820
Buy on Amazon
Taming the Mammoth: Why You Should Stop Caring What Other People Think cover
Best for Individuals struggling with self-acceptance and societal pressuresOften cited around embracing uniqueness

It's called Taming the Mammoth. Why You Should Stop Caring What Other People Think.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals struggling with self-acceptance and societal pressures
Key quote: You cannot get caught up too much with what other people think about you because they're not thinking about you.
The host references 'Taming the Mammoth' to emphasize the importance of accepting one's uniqueness rather than conforming to societal expectations. They highlight how the book's message resonates with personal experiences of insecurity and the realization that others are often too preoccupied with their own lives to judge us as harshly as we fear.
ASIN: 9354195962
Buy on Amazon
Louis B. Mayer cover
Best for Individuals interested in the entertainment industry and personal developmentOften cited around biographies and inspiration

David Geffen finding the biography of Louis B. Mayer, and he holds onto this idea for his entire life.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Individuals interested in the entertainment industry and personal development
Key quote: The other person that he wanted to pattern his career after was the founder of, one of the founders of MGM, Louis B. Mayer.
The host discusses the complexities of David Geffen's character, highlighting both his successes and his ruthless behavior. The mention of Louis B. Mayer serves to illustrate the kind of influential figures Geffen admired and sought to emulate in his career.
ASIN: 0300254490
Buy on Amazon
Sammy Glick cover
Best for Readers interested in the ethics of ambition and success in the entertainment industry.Often cited around David Geffen's early career

They compare him to this character called Sammy Glick, who was in this really popular novel in the 1940s.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Readers interested in the ethics of ambition and success in the entertainment industry.
Key quote: Sammy Glick was a backstabbing huckster who employed appalling tricks to run to the top in Hollywood, kicking others off the ladder as he rose higher and higher.
The host discusses David Geffen's early career and his morally questionable tactics for success, comparing him to the character Sammy Glick. This comparison highlights the cutthroat nature of the entertainment industry and the lengths some individuals will go to achieve their goals.

Movies & Documentaries Mentioned

Movie

The Outlaw Josie Wales

Confidence: 90%

Geffen sees a rough cut of this movie that Clint Eastwood is making and suggests it would be better if it was 20 minutes shorter.