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Indexed 6 mentions
FoundersJan 8, 2018

#18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman on Founders.

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#18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman mentions Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, Let My People Go Surfing by Yvonne Chouinard, Wait But Why by Tim Urban, and Creativity in Small Groups by Alexander Paul Hare with timestamps, quotes, and episode context.

3 books from this episode
Extreme Ownership
Jocko Willink

Extreme Ownership dictates like, so it's Jocko and this guy named Leif Babin who are going over what... SEALs are doing.

Let My People Go Surfing
Yvonne Chouinard

And that is, Let My People Go Surfing, The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvonne Chouinard.

Wait But Why
Tim Urban

I definitely recommend picking up the book and reading it if it's interesting to you.

Episode summary
What I learned from reading Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvon Chouinard. --- I had always avoided thinking of myself as a businessman. I was a climber, a surfer, a kayaker, a skier, and a blacksmith. We simply enjoyed making good tools and functional clothes. [0:01] One day it dawned on me that I was a businessman and would probably be one for a long time. I knew that I would never be happy playing by the normal rules of business; I wanted to distance myself as far as possible from this pasty-faced corpses in suits I saw in airline magazine ads. If I had to be a businessman, I was going to do it on my own terms. [0:32] One of my favorite sayings about entrepreneurship is: If you want to understand the entrepreneur, study the juvenile delinquent. The delinquent is saying with his actions, “This sucks. I’m going to do my own thing. [1:00] Work had to be enjoyable on a daily basis. [1:18] I’ve always thought of myself as an 80 percent. I like to throw myself passionately into an activity until I reach about an 80 percent proficiency level. To go beyond that requires an obsession and degree of specialization that doesn’t appeal to me. Once I reach that 80 percent level I like to go off and do something totally different. [4:05] Tom Brokaw on Yvon: It’s been helpful to me to be Yvon’s friend. He makes me think about things in new ways. [5:36] Can a company that wants to make the best-quality outdoor clothing in the world be the size of Nike? Can a ten-table, three-star French restaurant retain its third star when it adds fifty tables? The question haunted me throughout the 1980s as Patagonia evolved. [7:35] I continued to practice my MBA theory of management, management by absence, while I wear-tested our clothing and equipment in the most extreme conditions of the Himalayas and South America. [10:13] Throughout the book he’s has a really beautiful idea of comparing business and organizing human labor, to nature. Part of this idea is he intentionally puts Patagonia through a lot of stress because he feels you need stress to grow. [11:42] Doing risk sports had taught me another important lesson: Never exceed your limits. You push the envelope, but you don’t go over. You have to be true to yourself; you have to know your strengths and limitations and live within your means. The same is true for business. The sooner a company tries to be what it is not, the sooner it tries to have it all, the sooner it will die. [18:05] I did not yet know what we would do to get our company out of the mess it was in. But I did know we had to look to the Iroquois and their seven-generation planning, and not to corporate America, as models of stewardship and sustainability. As part of their decision process, the Iroquois had a person who represented the seventh generation in the future. If Patagonia could survive this crisis we had to begin to make all our decisions as though we would be in business for a hundred years. [19:12] The first part of our mission statement, “Make the best product,” is the cornerstone of our business philosophy. “Make the best” is a difficult goal. It doesn’t mean “among the best” or the “best at a particular price point.” It means “make the best,” period. [24:05] The functionality driven design is usually minimalist. Or as Dieter Rams maintains, “Good design is as little design as possible.” Complexity is often a sure sign that the functional needs have not been solved. Take the difference between the Ferrari and the Cadillac of the 1960s. The Ferrari’s clean lines suites its high-performance aims. The Cadillac really didn’t have any functional aims. It didn’t have steering, suspension, aerodynamics, or brakes appropriate to its immense horsepower. All it had to do was convey the idea of power, creature comfort, of a living room floating down the highway to the golf course. So, to a basically ugly shape were added all manner of useless chrome: fins at the back, breasts at the front. Once you lose the discipline of functionality as a design guidepost, the imagination runs amok. Once you design a monster, it tends to look like one too. [25:53] When I die and go to hell, the devil is going to make me the marketing director for a cola company. I’ll be in charge of trying to sell a product that no one needs, is identical to its competition, and can’t be sold on its merits. I’d be competing head-on in the cola wars, on price, distribution, advertising, and promotion, which would indeed be hell for me. I’d much rather design and sell products so good and unique that they have no competition. [27:15] There are different ways to address a new idea or project. If you take the conservative scientific route, you study the problem in your head or on paper until you are sure there is no chance of failure. However, you have taken so long that the competition has already beaten you to market. The entrepreneurial way is to immediately take a forward step and if that feels good, take another, if not, step back. Learn by doing, it is a faster process. [32:40] Nonfiction marketing. Our branding efforts are simple: tell people who we are. We don’t have to create a fictional character. Writing fiction is so much more difficult than nonfiction. Fiction requires creativity and imagination. Nonfiction deals with simple truths. [34:00] It’s okay to be eccentric, as long as you are rich; otherwise, you’re just crazy. [36:19] Quality, not price, has the highest correlation with business success. Whenever we are faced with a serious business decision, the answer almost always is to increase quality. [37:37] We never wanted to be a big company. We want to be the best company, and it’s easier to try to be the best small company than the best big company. [40:20] We don’t hire the kind of people you can order around. We don’t want drones who will simply follow directions. We want the kind of employees who will question the wisdom of something they regard as a bad decision. We do want people who, once they but into a decision and believe in what they are doing, will work like demons to produce something of the highest possible quality. [43:57] Systems in nature appear to us to be chaotic but in reality are very structured, just not in a top-down centralized way. A top-down centralized system like a dictatorship takes an enormous amount of force and work to keep the hierarchy in power. All top-down systems eventually collapse, leaving the system in chaos. A familial company like ours runs on trust rather than on authoritarian rule. [44:52] The lesson to be learned is that evolution (change) doesn’t happen without stress, and it can happen quickly. Just as doing risks sports will create stresses that lead to a bettering of one’s self, so should a company constantly stress itself in order to grow. [50:29] I believe the way toward mastery of any endeavor is to work towards simplicity. The more you know, the less you need. [56:01] ---- Founders Notes gives you the ability to tap into the collective knowledge of history's greatest entrepreneurs on demand. Use it to supplement the decisions you make in your work. Get access to Founders Notes here. ---- “I have listened to every episode released and look forward to every episode that comes out. The only criticism I would have is that after each podcast I usually want to buy the book because I am interested so my poor wallet suffers. ” — Gareth Be like Gareth. Buy a book: All the books featured on Founders Podcast
Mention timeline

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View every mention
Extreme Ownership
Jocko Willink

The host mentions 'Extreme Ownership' to highlight the importance of decentralized command in both military and busin…

Card
Let My People Go Surfing
Yvonne Chouinard

The host discusses Yvonne Chouinard's book as a reflection of his unique approach to business, emphasizing the import…

Card
Wait But Why
Tim Urban

The host mentions 'Wait But Why' by Tim Urban to highlight the importance of innovation in business, contrasting it w…

Card
Creativity in Small Groups
Alexander Paul Hare

The host references 'Creativity in Small Groups' to emphasize the effectiveness of small teams in problem-solving and…

Card
Zero to One
Peter Thiel

The host references Peter Thiel's book 'Zero to One' to emphasize the importance of creating unique products that sta…

Card
Patagonia

The host discusses Yvonne Chouinard's book 'Let My People Go Surfing' to explore the unique approach to business that…

Card
Book mentions6
Media mentions0
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What is #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman about?

Summary, books mentioned, transcript quotes, and timestamps for #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman on Founders.

What are the main takeaways from #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman?

These are the strongest takeaways surfaced by the transcript, summary copy, and linked mentions for #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman.

  • The conversation centers on entrepreneurship and business philosophy.
  • A second recurring theme is decentralized management principles.
  • Referenced books include Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Let My People Go Surfing by Yvonne Chouinard.
  • The strongest audience signal points to Managers and leaders in any organization and Entrepreneurs and business leaders seeking alternative business philosophies.

Which books are mentioned in #18 Let My People Go Surfing: The Education of a Reluctant Businessman?

Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, Let My People Go Surfing by Yvonne Chouinard, and Wait But Why by Tim Urban are the clearest linked books in this episode, each tied back to transcript timestamps and quote cards.

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Topic and sentiment signals

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Mention sentiment
Deep Dive(4)Highly Recommended(2)
Audience signals
Managers and leaders in any organizationEntrepreneurs and business leaders seeking alternative business philosophiesEntrepreneurs and business innovatorsManagers and team leadersEntrepreneurs and product designersEntrepreneurs and business leaders interested in unconventional business practices

Books Mentioned

The full list below is ranked by how useful each mention is to a listener: stronger recommendation language, clearer quote context, and better timestamp support rise first.

Extreme Ownership cover
Extreme Ownership
Jocko Willink
Best for Managers and leaders in any organizationOften cited around decentralized management principles

The reason I thought about it in this section because it talks about the Navy SEALs. Extreme Ownership dictates like, so it's Jocko and this guy named Leif Babin who are going over what SEALs are doing.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Managers and leaders in any organization
Key quote: Extreme Ownership dictates like, so it's Jocko and this guy named Leif Babin who are going over what... SEALs are doing.
The host mentions 'Extreme Ownership' to highlight the importance of decentralized command in both military and business contexts. They believe the principles outlined in the book can significantly enhance management practices and employee alignment.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Let My People Go Surfing cover
Let My People Go Surfing
Yvonne Chouinard
Best for Entrepreneurs and business leaders seeking alternative business philosophiesOften cited around entrepreneurship and business philosophy

The book is split into two parts. It's the history, which is like a mini autobiography of how he got started doing what he did. And then the second half is the principles of his company, which he's put a lot of time into thinking.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Entrepreneurs and business leaders seeking alternative business philosophies
Key quote: And that is, Let My People Go Surfing, The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvonne Chouinard.
The host discusses Yvonne Chouinard's book as a reflection of his unique approach to business, emphasizing the importance of enjoyment and flexibility in the workplace. The book serves as both a personal narrative and a guide to the principles that have shaped Patagonia's success over the years.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Wait But Why cover
Wait But Why
Tim Urban
Best for Entrepreneurs and business innovatorsOften cited around innovation versus invention

The speaker refers to Tim Urban's blog 'Wait But Why' in relation to a podcast about the difference between cooks and chefs, which he enjoys reading.

View mention details
Sentiment: Highly Recommended
For: Entrepreneurs and business innovators
Key quote: I definitely recommend picking up the book and reading it if it's interesting to you.
The host mentions 'Wait But Why' by Tim Urban to highlight the importance of innovation in business, contrasting it with the slower process of invention. He finds Urban's insights particularly engaging and relevant to the discussion on entrepreneurship and product design.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Creativity in Small Groups cover
Creativity in Small Groups
Alexander Paul Hare
Best for Managers and team leadersOften cited around small group productivity

Every company has its ideal size Alexander Paul Hare author of the classic Creativity in Small Groups showed that groups size between four and seven were most successful at problem solving.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Managers and team leaders
Key quote: alexander paul hare author of the classic creativity in small groups showed that groups size between four and seven were most successful at problem solving largely because small groups as hare observed to be more productive and productive and inclusive for the purpose of providing a sense of being a strong workforce that is democratic egalitarian mutualistic cooperative and inclusive.
The host references 'Creativity in Small Groups' to emphasize the effectiveness of small teams in problem-solving and productivity. The book's insights support the idea that smaller groups foster a more democratic and cooperative work environment, which aligns with the host's management philosophy.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Zero to One cover
Zero to One
Peter Thiel
Best for Entrepreneurs and product designersOften cited around design and innovation

The speaker mentions Peter Thiel's book 'Zero to One' in the context of designing and selling unique products that have no competition.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Entrepreneurs and product designers
Key quote: I'd much rather design and sell products so good and unique that they have no competition.
The host references Peter Thiel's book 'Zero to One' to emphasize the importance of creating unique products that stand out in the market. He contrasts innovation with invention, highlighting how successful designs often stem from adapting existing ideas rather than creating entirely new concepts.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
Patagonia cover
Best for Entrepreneurs and business leaders interested in unconventional business practicesOften cited around entrepreneurship and business philosophy

The book discusses the philosophy of Patagonia and its approach to sustainability and business practices, emphasizing long-term decision-making and environmental stewardship.

View mention details
Sentiment: Deep Dive
For: Entrepreneurs and business leaders interested in unconventional business practices
Key quote: One of my favorite sayings about entrepreneurship is, if you want to understand the entrepreneur, study the juvenile delinquent.
The host discusses Yvonne Chouinard's book 'Let My People Go Surfing' to explore the unique approach to business that prioritizes enjoyment and personal values. The book serves as both a history of Patagonia and a guide to its founding principles, reflecting Chouinard's philosophy developed over decades.
Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Check price
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Extreme Ownership
Founders · 45:54
Extreme Ownership dictates like, so it's Jocko and this guy named Leif Babin who are going over what... SEALs are doing.
Let My People Go Surfing
Founders · 1:57
And that is, Let My People Go Surfing, The Education of a Reluctant Businessman by Yvonne Chouinard.
Wait But Why
Founders · 30:51
I definitely recommend picking up the book and reading it if it's interesting to you.
One useful email a week. Unsubscribe anytime.
Shop This Episode

Pick up the books after you hear them in context.

Extreme Ownership cover
Mentioned at 45:54
Extreme Ownership
Jocko Willink

The host mentions 'Extreme Ownership' to highlight the importance of decentralized command in both military and business contexts. They believe the…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Let My People Go Surfing cover
Mentioned at 1:57
Let My People Go Surfing
Yvonne Chouinard

The host discusses Yvonne Chouinard's book as a reflection of his unique approach to business, emphasizing the importance of enjoyment and flexibil…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link
Wait But Why cover
Mentioned at 30:51
Wait But Why
Tim Urban

The host mentions 'Wait But Why' by Tim Urban to highlight the importance of innovation in business, contrasting it with the slower process of inve…

Direct Amazon listing · affiliate link

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